poll: removals

[Toddppm]

The only thing that takes more skill about pruning jobs is the sale of a proper prune job, the sale on a removal is much easier.

 

[WRW]

Why would anybody put up a greenhouse under a tree? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the greenhouse? Those things are expensive, and to put one where it would do no good just doesn't sound right.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

On high end properties you camn find conservatories, sun rooms and greenhouses that have trees on the north side.

Mike I guess we just gotta disagree. Sometimes to do what the customer wants you have to trim the tree in a manner that is not consistant with its best interest.

One post your griping that I'm advocating removing low branches, another your complaining that I'm not removing large limbs.

I have a very good understanding of tree dynamics and the relationship to pruning. So much so that I know that I realy dont know all that much.

There are soem perople that are saying now that even ANSI aproved thinning techniques may increase the probiblity of limb failure for a short period of time. This is because of the change in the moment of bend and decrease in mass dampening which you allude to in your concerns with lionstailing. I've seen a properly thinned limb fail that was being supported by all the small branch rubbing th its tips. Happened several days after I pruned it.

I have a saying that there are tow poles in the tree worker profession.

On one end there are the advocates for the trees that will not do anything that is inthe trees best interest. Then there are the guys who will do whatever the customer wants because he's getting paid to.

I find myself in the middle of the spectrum leaning towards the advocacy veiw. I'm here to manage peoples property so that it can give them enjoyment fot a long time. I do not want to doa naything that will cause the tree to decline, ot develop unsafe defect. I also know that there are methods that can be used to train a tree into a form that will allow the tree to exist in the client environment.

once again, i am looking for the trees long trerm health in an environment that it's speices di not evolve in. not every tree can be a low canopied spreader. Sometimes you have to tri a portion instead of prune (see definitoin above).

I know what I am talking about, I know what you are saying too. You just refuse to listen to soemthing new, and thow out spurriouse arguments such as topping or gutting. Niether of which I have advocated.

BTW I agree, most proper pruning is more difficult then removal. Some removals can be extreamly technical, any large tree pruning should be. one should be climbing out to get the right angle on every cut, how many people do? Cuts should remain small, how often do we see large shiners on trunks?

 

[treeclimber165]

I'd have to say that for most situations I would discuss reasons and alternatives first, then removal if no other workable alternative exists.
"It's too tall" is a pretty crappy excuse when the tree was there prior to their house and there were plenty of un-treed lots available. Unfortunately people who choose to buy the only wooded lot in a subdivision then butcher it are a good argument for homeowner's association rules against such stupidity. Sometimes I think trees are smarter than people.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think that all things must be considered, and the true friend and pro; trims the tree to the customer, setting and trees betterment.

Some choices will have to be made; only one with passion, experience and education should make them; to suit all best.

i had an interesting one the other day; i was arguing to remove 3 trees from this lady's yard! They were riddled with mistletoe, worst i had ever seen! She asked about planting other trees to mature as others failed; had to tell her that they would probably get misltetoe from others. Had to tell her; how i usually am arguing things totally diffrent.

Is there a time when you would refuse to trim live trees? The reverse scenario; a moral obligation not to service this way? i think htat they should have been removed. These trees will and have infected others and the limbs are failing. i'd guess most clumps of it in trees were in 5-20# range! She didn't want unbroken limbs cut, except low ones; so we were just shaving it from bark, told her it will come back etc.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Since this thread was about ethics, perhaps it would be interesting to talk more about that aspect.
John spoke of the two camps, one just do what you are told, irregaurdless of what is good for the tree. Camp two only does what's right for the health of the tree.
I think it's all about ethics. For example, you are asked to top a tree. Most of us would not do that. Some of us will be asked by our employer to go top a tree, and this is a tough spot for the climber.
This is why it is important to position yourself where you would not be put in this situation. If you are like me, and prefer to just climb as an employee, then find an employer that won't sell these jobs, one who will walk away from improper pruning. If you are the owner or salesman, then walk away from these customers. They will only hurt your reputation and business, in the long run.

I think removals are different than improper pruning. If a customer wants a tree removed, for whatever reason, and you can't dissuade them, go ahead and remove it. On the other hand, imporoper pruning by a proffessional sends the message that this is what proper pruning looks like, and this is the type of work your company does.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't remove one or two lower branches in a guys yard, even though it's bad for the tree. I would walk away from a job where he wants every tree in his yard raised up.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It's not a Yin/Yang thing i'm talking about, there are verying shades of gray involved. Everyone has the line drawn where they wont go, like Mike said most of us wont to a tree.

Then there is the disscussion of the lionstailing. In my mind it can be a lesser of two evils in removing a large limb, and I explain it to the client too.