Porter or Stock, New Ethanol Rules will affect us all

[pataya1]

EPA is under a rural-state-promoted congressional mandate to increase ethanol use. Congress required fuel refiners to blend 36 billion gallons of biofuels, mostly ethanol, into auto fuel by 2022 and the EPA says it can't be done without allowing at least an E-15 blend.
With that being said, I have always run premium in my small engine equipment. (I can't find any non-ethanol pure gas)
What's going to happen to our small equipment, especially chainsaws (and more specifically work saws both stock and ported) that are designed to be run hard all day long?

I doubt if you are like me and put full days in with a chain saw for commercial use are going to be able to just start buying that pre-mixed fuel at the store for like $30 a gallon.

What's our alternative? I mean, so if congress allows E-15 where does it stop?
Are we going to be talking about E-20 next year or the year after that?

Best Regards,
Philip

 

[fwgsaw]

I really wouldn't worry about it much, we will still be sawing just fine 10 years from now

 

[broman78]

I really wouldn't worry about it much, we will still be sawing just fine 10 years from now

Exactly, truer words couldn't be said. I haven't encountered a problem with ethanol in my saws yet. After about two or three weeks the mixed fuel goes in my car. Somebody will be profiting off the fear and ignorance of others.

 

[john_bud]

I really wouldn't worry about it much, we will still be sawing just fine 10 years from now

"sawing" yes. But with what saw?

[img/]http://www.lowes.com/images/LCI/Planning/BuyingGuides/bg_HandsawBG_hero_image.jpg[/img]

 

[chadihman]

E-15,E-20 or E-100 will probably be the least of our worries if this damn government keeps running in this current track

 

[Boleclimber]

I want larger cooling fins so I can unleash the power of alcohol.

 

[fwgsaw]

"sawing" yes. But with what saw?

[img/]http://www.lowes.com/images/LCI/Planning/BuyingGuides/bg_HandsawBG_hero_image.jpg[/img]

I'm not saying there hasn't been problems with e fuel there has but like anything problems come and go. There has been fuel issues long as I can remember when they change anything there's bound to be problems. But they have been corrected in the past and will continue to correct any future problems after all they do sell fuel for a living no sense in building fuel no one will use

 

[jughead500]

well the way i see it.the government(epa) has us where they want us.create a need for something that should be readily available.in this instance bottled pure gas.look on the shelves in your local grocery store.yeap bottled water because municiple water is nearly undrinkable because of all of the chlorine to kill all of the "nasty" stuff.20 years ago i would have never thought i would have ran into bottled gas for close to $8 a quart much less see bundled firewood on the shelf.there's a bunch of yuppies i work for bought a box of fatwood kindling from home and hearth or some sort of BS and paid close to $100 for it just to start a fire but cuss when i charge $40 to bring them some firewood to burn in the fireplace.actually the last time i took them wood it was the last i had to keep me warm in the shop while i was workin on my equipment.the US is going to hell in a hand basket.we're "too soft" anymore.
the only solution we have is to take the ethanol away from the gas when the time comes.

 

[KenJax Tree]

I've been using BP 91 octane E free gas from the marina about 10 minutes away from my house there are a few other marinas close by but BP has 91 octane and the others are 87 and 89.

I'm sure all these engineers designing these saws have ethanol in mind.

 

[pataya1]

Take it from me.
Although my profile says I am a work in the forestry industry, I am also a trained chemist.

Look at the numbers, they don't Lie...its not a 5% increase.......Look below

E10 to E15 looks small, but that's a 50% increase in the amount of ethanol from E10
If we consider E20 to E10, that's a 100% increase in the amount of ethanol from E10

The average care, even the ones designed for FlexFuel actually get 30% better mileage from Non-Ethanol Gas.
What does this say about how the engine was designed to run?

And the engineering behind the saws is actually designed for Non-Ethanol based fuel.
The leading saw companies in the market are based in either Sweden or Germany.
Ethanol is available there but also Non-Ethanol fuel is still widely available.

 

[zogger]

I've been using BP 91 octane E free gas from the marina about 10 minutes away from my house there are a few other marinas close by but BP has 91 octane and the others are 87 and 89.

I'm sure all these engineers designing these saws have ethanol in mind.

Ha! They will just train all the techs and dealers to start chanting "straight gassed...straight gassed" whenever a saw walks in the door.

 

[greg409]

I really wouldn't worry about it much, we will still be sawing just fine 10 years from now

^ what he said ^



luck,greg

 

[fwgsaw]

Take it from me.
Although my profile says I am a work in the forestry industry, I am also a trained chemist.

Look at the numbers, they don't Lie...its not a 5% increase.......Look below

E10 to E15 looks small, but that's a 50% increase in the amount of ethanol from E10
If we consider E20 to E10, that's a 100% increase in the amount of ethanol from E10

The average care, even the ones designed for FlexFuel actually get 30% better mileage from Non-Ethanol Gas.
What does this say about how the engine was designed to run?

And the engineering behind the saws is actually designed for Non-Ethanol based fuel.
The leading saw companies in the market are based in either Sweden or Germany.
Ethanol is available there but also Non-Ethanol fuel is still widely available.

And diesel gets 30% better mileage than non ethanol gas......just saying

 

[TPA]

everyday use saws will fare better with ethanol than an occasional user. Ethanol binds water and any contaminants in the water. When the saw is put up for the day, the fuel left in the carb and lines evaporates and leaves behind the contaminants in the water in ethanol. The more evaporation that occurs, the more carb clogging deposits. Everyday use saws have continuous flows of fuel through them which keeps small passages cleaned out enough to keep running.

Modern car engines have closed and pressurized fuel systems so that little or no evaporation occurs. The gaskets and sealing materials are made to be compatible with ethanol, so cars see fewer problems.

Saw, lawnmowers, trimmers, blowers etc have open fuel systems and have gaskets/diaphragms that have not yet caught up with the ethanol switch. When outdoor power equipment finally catches up, you will be buying all new stuff so that you will be able to use it next year.

Can't wait for my fuel injected chainsaw.

 

[DieselSteve]

I must be lucky, my local saw shop has ethanol free premium right there at the shop. Makes it easy.

 

[Jeff Lary]

I really wouldn't worry about it much, we will still be sawing just fine 10 years from now

Don't you believe it !! start the panic now and avoid the rush in 2022 ! ( Ha Ha )

 

[kyle.kipple]

id worry less about cutting wood in 10 years and worry more about ww3 possibly starting THIS YEAR...my 2 cents.

 

[Eddy_t]

You lot run low octane over there, ours is 96 minimum, and we have less ethanol content
But it costs more at GBP £1.40/L
I'll let you lot do the conversions and math on cost per gal

On another note, ethanol absorbs water, water sticks to metal more readily than fuel, which I would assume causes condensation in the crankcase, would this not pose more of a risk?

 

[CTYank]

I want larger cooling fins so I can unleash the power of alcohol.

Uh, alcohol is a much better internal coolant than gasoline. Much higher heat of vaporization and boiling point. One of the reasons USAC (Indy) folks like methanol for their fuel. Ethanol is better yet.

Problem is ethanol likes to be in a mixed-drink, so to speak. Extremely hygroscopic- strongly attracted to water. When the Navy distributed bulk fuel for the old Mk 14 "steam" torpedoes, 190 proof was the best they could get. You simply can't get/keep all the water out. (You can't drink 190 proof either- puckers you like a prune.)

 

[zogger]

Uh, alcohol is a much better internal coolant than gasoline. Much higher heat of vaporization and boiling point. One of the reasons USAC (Indy) folks like methanol for their fuel. Ethanol is better yet.

Problem is ethanol likes to be in a mixed-drink, so to speak. Extremely hygroscopic- strongly attracted to water. When the Navy distributed bulk fuel for the old Mk 14 "steam" torpedoes, 190 proof was the best they could get. You simply can't get/keep all the water out. (You can't drink 190 proof either- puckers you like a prune.)

How does ethanol compare to pure gasoline as regards mixing with two stroke oil? Better/worse/about the same?

TIA