Poulan ... what size is my engine?

[Gary1234]

Shadetree ... repair costs??

Shadetree .... with the cost of a Poulan running less than $100 (including shipping costs), does it make sense to get one repaired? I would think the average repair costs would be greater than the cost of a new or reconditioned saw.

 

[shadetree]

Hi Gary
You are right, but most of the repairs I do on Poulans, is under warrenty, I mean Poulan pays me to repair them.
Poulan, and Poulan pro has a really good warrenty. The green ones has a one year, and the yellow has a two year. And unlike alot of companys I do business with, they back their stuff up really well.
But you would be surprised, how many people dont even no that thay have a warrenty.
But still I have alot of people that will bring a saw, or something to me, to be repaired, that maybe cost $100.00 new, and is going to cost $50.00 to repair, and they still want it fixed, even though I tell them its not worth it.
I dont know why!!! The older I get the more I relize, how little I understand lol
Shadetree

 

[Brian B.]

So from all this gibberish ... if you are purchasing a Poulan or a Craftsman, look at the parts list in the owners manual. If the cylinder is listed as part #530012550 you are purchasing a 42cc chainsaw (even if the chainsaw stickers say 33cc or 36cc) ... it'll pay to buy the least expensive chainsaw that uses the 2550 cylinder.

So in all honesty, and with all joking aside.. I'm getting a 2150- is it a small motor saw or up close to 40cc? I'm all confused now..

 

[Chris-PA]

You won't really know until you look at the EPA tag on the back. It will either be 36cc or 42cc, because after a while they just put 42cc engines in all saws of that family. It was cheaper that way. I had a Craftsman that said 40cc on the side but it was 42cc.

I just finished grinding on the cylinder of a well-worn 36cc engine I got in a box of spares. It'll need a ring but then I'm going to see how it runs with a larger carb and some timing advance. I bet it does just fine if the ring seals.

 

[fearofpavement]

This thread might explain why the Craftsman saw that passed through here recently said 42cc in one place and 40cc in another.

 

[Brian B.]

I was supposed to get that sucker this morning but now it might be tomorrow. That would sure be cool if it was the bigger motor.

 

[Brian B.]

You won't really know until you look at the EPA tag on the back. It will either be 36cc or 42cc, because after a while they just put 42cc engines in all saws of that family. It was cheaper that way. I had a Craftsman that said 40cc on the side but it was 42cc.

I just finished grinding on the cylinder of a well-worn 36cc engine I got in a box of spares. It'll need a ring but then I'm going to see how it runs with a larger carb and some timing advance. I bet it does just fine if the ring seals.

So, the epa tag will just openly list the cc size? Or is it encrypted/ disguised somehow? (Thanks)

 

[Chris-PA]

So, the epa tag will just openly list the cc size? Or is it encrypted/ disguised somehow? (Thanks)

Yeah, it just lists it clearly as 42cc or whatever it is.

 

[Brian B.]

So, the epa tag will just openly list the cc size? Or is it encrypted/ disguised somehow? (Thanks)[/QUOTEYeah, it just lists it clearly as 42cc or whatever it is.]

Well dammit son- now you got me driving to the damned farm and home store!

 

[Oddjobz]

I just found this thread and found it interesting since I've just rebuilt a bunch of these......

All of these saws are based on the Partner 350 and 351.
I've taken apart, and swapped parts between the Craftsman, Poulans, Poulan Pros and Jonsereds.
They all either have the 38mm or the 41.1mm piston and cylinders and they are all interchangeable.
PP220, 260 2150 2050, 2137 etc etc etc..........

If you want to upgrade any of these saws....especially the Poulans, pull out the exhaust restricter....yes that little metal
piece of junk in the exhaust port and dremel away the lip. You can also take 1/32 off the bottom and top and 1/16 to each side.

The intake can be opened up a bit also, plus you can take 1/32 or so on the bakelite carb mount.......

Note that there are 41.1mm dual ring pistons available too......yes it will fit in the poulans.

 

[Chris-PA]

All of these saws are based on the Partner 350 and 351

Actually the Partner is just a renamed Poulan.

Don't grind the lip off the lower edge of the exhaust port - it doesn't help and you risk freeporting it.

 

[Oddjobz]

Whichever name is first is a moot point... you can be sure all these saws are assembled in the USA from parts
made in China/Taiwan and some of the steel parts from Sweden.

I have a Jonsered 2137 sitting on the bench.... nice sticker on the back "Assembled in USA".
The Husky Jenn Feng division is probably making the parts in its Taiwan or China factories and
shipping to the US for Assembly.

The only danger with the bottom lip is if you go to/past the first ring.....and you have at least another 1/8 after you fully
remove the bottom lip. I've done several, not a problem.

All of these are given CC sizes because that is what most people understand....by varying port sizes the manufacturer
can change the HP rating....but tell people a HP rating for a saw and it is lost on them..... 3.15 HP vs 3.24 HP.
Not as marketable as 38cc or 40cc . That decimal point is a no go in marketing.

Kind of funny since HP is a moot point in devices requiring torque........ "Hey my saw as 220ft lbs of torque.
Oh yeah, well my Stihl has 290ft lbs of torque....it can buck its way out of a pinched oak"..... when was that last
time you heard that conversation .....eh?

 

[Chris-PA]

Whichever name is first is a moot point... you can be sure all these saws are assembled in the USA from parts
made in China/Taiwan and some of the steel parts from Sweden.

I have a Jonsered 2137 sitting on the bench.... nice sticker on the back "Assembled in USA".
The Husky Jenn Feng division is probably making the parts in its Taiwan or China factories and
shipping to the US for Assembly.

The only danger with the bottom lip is if you go to/past the first ring.....and you have at least another 1/8 after you fully
remove the bottom lip. I've done several, not a problem.

All of these are given CC sizes because that is what most people understand....by varying port sizes the manufacturer
can change the HP rating....but tell people a HP rating for a saw and it is lost on them..... 3.15 HP vs 3.24 HP.
Not as marketable as 38cc or 40cc . That decimal point is a no go in marketing.

Kind of funny since HP is a moot point in devices requiring torque........ "Hey my saw as 220ft lbs of torque.
Oh yeah, well my Stihl has 290ft lbs of torque....it can buck its way out of a pinched oak"..... when was that last
time you heard that conversation .....eh?

No doubt some parts and materials are sourced off shore, but those are mostly US made saws, and US designed from what I've read. I don't believe Jenn Feng was bought by Husqvarna but I'd like to see any info on that. Husqvarna just bought the McCulloch brand as far as I know.

The issues with lowering the bottom lip on the exhaust port are that it does not help to move the lower edge below the piston top because the piston still blocks it, and that the lower edge of the piston will open the exhaust port into the case at TDC - that is called freeporting. The lip helps in evacuating the exhaust gas. I have done a few as well.

Last, the whole torque vs. horsepower is a silly argument as in an engine we never discuss static torque, only torque at an rpm. Torque at an rpm is the definition of power. You can convert any plot of torque vs rpm to a hp vs. rpm plot with no additional data; therefore they are just alternative representations of the same thing. Power is what does work.

 

[Oddjobz]

I had originally posted this over on chainsawcollectors......


99-03 Mcculloch name owned by Jenn Feng (MTD buys NA rights after that),
The best part is that Husqvarna bought Jenn Feng in 2008......This is how they acquired the brand names.

******************************************************************************
Interesting, Jenn Feng a Taiwan company, this news report from China puts its operations in China.
Small world.
*******************************************************************************

Husqvarna buys Jenn Feng chainsaw, mower unit
Bloomberg March 18, 2008, 12:00 am TWN

STOCKHOLM -- Husqvarna, the world's largest maker of lawnmowers, agreed to buy a chainsaw and mower business from Jenn Feng Industrial Co. of Taiwan for about US$100 million.

The Huskvarna, Sweden-based company will pay US$83 million in cash up front and the rest of the price will depend on the unit's working capital at the time the deal is closed, spokeswoman Aasa Stenqvist said yesterday. Husqvarna, spun off from appliance maker Electrolux AB in 2006, has expanded in Asia through acquisitions including China's Hebei Jikai Industrial Ltd., a maker of diamond saws. The Jenn Feng operations, located in China, will give the Swedish company a wider manufacturing base in Asia, Husqvarna said.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/busi ... a-buys.htm


******************************

Some of the more premium saw parts are probably made by Zenoah......which was bought by Husqvarna in 2007
http://www.zenoah.co.jp/int/company/company-outline/

*************

As for the freeporting, technically as soon as the rings pass the exhaust port, your exhaust port has contact
with the crankcase....since the seal has progressed past the port. The only thing that interferes is the piston
skirt. If your piston has a short skirt the port is open to the crankcase and yes that is bad......all the ones I've done
so far have had a long enough skirt to prevent flow through.......which is what you are referring to when you say
freeporting......(it can also be called venting). There are several flavors of these engines around, wouldn't be surprised
if there were shorter and longer versions. 1/8 inch can make a world of difference.

I've been a mechanic for over 40 years so I've heard many different terms that refer to the same thing.
In four strokes this same effect can happen with too long or too early a cam lobe duration or weak valve spring float.

 

[Oddjobz]

Well, ever since the class action lawsuit in 08 consumers have been left in the dark as to just what
capacities their equipment has..... ooomphf is the ability to get the job done, and torque is what does it.
http://movingsnow.com/2008/cc-to-torque-to-hp-conversion-update/

Torque is power....I worked many years in Diesel Transport........and Torque is what gets everything moving.

But! Torque is the result of gearing... which is evident on a snowblower or anything with a transmission.

For a directly driven system like a chainsaw .......it's a different story. Your power is a direct result
bore, stroke, fuel mixture and flow volumes... at different engine speeds. When you buck a tree and
make your cut at full throttle you are using the Max HP to start the cut, but once the cut is started, it
is the torque that carries the momentum against the coefficient of the wood. (ie: wet, dry, dense, soft, hard)
Powerband is everything in chainsaws.....you can play around a bit with sprocket sizes and chain specs.
...but the oomphf is what really matters.

So to the one who started the thread......your engine size is irrelevant. Your engine power is everything.

 

[dougand3]

I see Partner 350 top ends 41.1mm that look like they'd fit 1990-2005 Poulans for ~$30. Thing is...I rarely have scored P&C in those saws.

I have a few strato Poulans in boxes with scored P&C that aren't worth rebuilding with OEM top ends at $60.

Is there a Partner saw aftermarket top end for 2005 and newer strato Poulans (intake manifold has 4 bolts)?

 

[Oddjobz]

The $30 partner 350 P&C will replace the 38mm and 41.1mm in most of the Sears 944.xxxxx models.
Mcculloch 335 435 440
The Poulan 1950 2025 2050 2075 2150 2175 2350 2375 220 230 260 Jonsered 2137 and a few others.
(I haven't confirmed all the poulan models yet, bold ones I've done first hand)
What's the model of strato poulan....

 

[dougand3]

One is a Poulan 4218AVX. I did just see a Partner 842 or 742 or McCulloch 742 or 842 top end that may be it. The Poulan carcasses are at the other house. I'll compare jugs tonite.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222370369891?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[Oddjobz]

Yup.....these are the same. All will take the 41mm plug & jug.

POULAN PARTNER P3314 3416 3516PR 3818AV 4018 PP3516 3816 4018 4218 PPB3416 4018 S1970 + Others

REPLACES OEM PART#(S): POULAN / PARTNER 506 07 18-84 ,506 07 18-83

You can also search for: 530071884 inclu desription

 

[Chris-PA]

The best part is that Husqvarna bought Jenn Feng in 2008......This is how they acquired the brand names.

OK, thanks for that. I thought they had just bought the name. It would explain why many of the Jenn Feng saws are still being sold in various places under Husqvarna names/brands.

Torque is power

No, this is the basic error. These terms all are very precisely defined as part of classical mechanics, but for some reason people who work with engines get them all garbled up. Torque is a measure of force in a rotational system. It does not involve movement at all, or any transfer of energy. It is just a force. Torque applied with a movement does transfer energy, and the rate at which it is transfers is called power. Power is what does work, and torque does not. Trying to make a distinction between power and torque at a rotational speed makes no sense, as they are the same.

Power is the work per unit time, given by

where P is power, τ is torque, ω is the angular velocity (Torque)

What people are usually trying to convey is that you want a broad power band rather than a peaky one, and this is especially true with a chainsaw that cannot be geared in any practical way.

As for the freeporting, technically as soon as the rings pass the exhaust port, your exhaust port has contact
with the crankcase

Technically yes, but practically no as there is not enough opening area to allow much if any flow. That does not happen until there is some significant opening area. I have a minorly freeported 42cc Poulan and it runs fine, but it is something to avoid. That step/lip at the lower edge of the exhaust port is a benefit as it allows for a rapid expansion of the gas volume and reduction in pressure, helping to avoid reversion. Here is one I freeported:

This is how I do them now: