Pressure & white oil in hyd tank

[BELZONI]

Hey Guy's ... I purchased a used loader a year ago .... it has performed great since I bought it until now ...... now it acts like either the hydraulic filters are stopping up or the pump is going out !... I always thought that white hydraulic oil meant that it has water in it ?... but a friend told me that it could just be air so I've been running the loader for 6 months with the white oil in it and now it has stopped working ... I have noticed that when I unscrew the large cap from the hydraulic tank while adding hydraulic fluid that the hydraulic tank has pressure in it ???.....

MY QUESTIONS ARE

1) How could water even get in the hydraulic tank ?

2) why would pressure be in the hydraulic tank ?

 

[Deereman76]

The tank should have a Vent, so if it is pressurizing the oil tank, the vent could be blocked. Easy way to tell if whitish oil is water or air - If it is water, it would take a long time for the water and oil to seperate, as in days. If it is Air, it should return to normal looking oil in a matter of hours. Another way would be to dribble a little on a hot plate, or Similar, and watered oil will spit and splatter as the water boils out of the oil.

My gut reaction is you have an Air leak on the suction side of the pump. When in operation, it is sucking air, making the oil Foam, giving it a whiteish look, and pressurizing the resevoir. This is Strictly a guess, nothing more. Usually an air leak will seep some oil out when the engine is off, and suck air when running, but not always. Good Luck.

Additionaly, depending on the pump, running a pump with a suction air leak can destroy a pump in short order. Some types of pumps are more tolerant of Air than others.

 

[BELZONI]

The tank should have a Vent, so if it is pressurizing the oil tank, the vent could be blocked. Easy way to tell if whitish oil is water or air - If it is water, it would take a long time for the water and oil to seperate, as in days. If it is Air, it should return to normal looking oil in a matter of hours. Another way would be to dribble a little on a hot plate, or Similar, and watered oil will spit and splatter as the water boils out of the oil.

My gut reaction is you have an Air leak on the suction side of the pump. When in operation, it is sucking air, making the oil Foam, giving it a whiteish look, and pressurizing the resevoir. This is Strictly a guess, nothing more. Usually an air leak will seep some oil out when the engine is off, and suck air when running, but not always. Good Luck.

Additionaly, depending on the pump, running a pump with a suction air leak can destroy a pump in short order. Some types of pumps are more tolerant of Air than others.

sounds like your right on spot ....... Man I hope I haven't tore my pump up ..... I have noticed an oil leak and have to add oil occasionally but not much ... It has been loading so great that I just thought that I'd fix the leak when it got sever ... but the leak I see is up in the boom and seems to be on my telescopic cylinder , but I can't see in there very well ?... that wouldn't be on the suction side would it ?....

 

[Deereman76]

No, the suction line is probably the biggest line on the machine, and would run from the bottom of the resevoir to the Pump. Probably pretty short. It can get tricky, depending on the Machine, For instance, our Case Loader has 3 Pumps, and it could be in the suction line to any of them.

Another Possibility is if the pump has a Suction Filter or screen, could cause some similar trouble.

What Make and Model are we looking at?

 

[Kapriel]

I agree, the tank vent is somehow blocked should be an easy fix.

I would take an oil sample and have it analyzed. It doesn't cost much and will give you a breakdown of everything in your oil.
You might have water, 1 or more types of oil that are not compatible with each other.
it will show you amount of chrome, moly,copper,iron, etc.

Which in turn will tell you if bearings or mechanical parts, O rings, gears etc are wearing at a rate faster than it should.

Ask around chances are you can get an oil sample kit at a parts store near you.

 

[Kapriel]

Opps almost forgot.

I wouldn't fool around with this even if it is water it can be very destructive for the entire system. They will do an acid test too.

It should be done anyways from time to time and compare the results.

 

[Driver625]

The oil dealer they use at work provides oil analysis. They have also gotten oil checked through the Cat dealer. Just making suggestions if the parts store doesn't have it.

 

[Kapriel]

Water can get into the system many ways. Condensation, engine coolant leak if pump is
connected that way. Vandalism, you name it.

Yes if you have a Cat or JD dealer nearby buy all means use them. Your going to need someone to interpret the results.

I've see hydraulic oil mixed with a synthethic silicone oil and it produced a white jelly like
foam that ended up destroying the system. Don't know how it got there it was before me.

Hopefully you will be fine. Trust me you don't want water in your hydraulics. :msp_thumbdn:

 

[BELZONI]

I have 4 loaders .... 3 of which are log loaders .... this loader that I'm having trouble out of is actually a grade-all type loader .... I use the loaders to load catfish onto 18 wheelers ..... I usually pick up about 2000 pounds a dip ... and each truck will hold approx 25000lbs ........ I load about 5 million pounds a year ...........

here are the fish in a holding net "sock"

this is the loader that I'm having trouble with .... its a Badger 460 hydro scopic

 

[BELZONI]

I tried to post a picture of the loader from my Photobucket account and I seen the pictures when I previewed but they didn't post ??... I am a Mississippi catfish farmer and have a custom seining company ..... I have 3 log loaders and then this loader ... it's a grade-all type loader .. its a Badger 460 hydroscopic .. approx a 1990 model ???.... I pick up about 2000lbs a dip with it and load catfish on 18 wheelers ... I load about 5 million pounds a year .........

 

[BELZONI]

 

[Deereman76]

That is quite the Machine.......Much Bigger than I had imagined! I had pictured a skid loader for some reason! I Would lean toward an Oil Analysis, Just to Know for Fact what you are dealing with.

 

[Kapriel]

Well that's the first time I've seen a set-up like that !

I was thinking without the oil analysis you have no idea what's in your oil.

The obvious thought by most people is water but it might not be water at all.
Water in oil given the right conditions can create acids and other corrosive gunk.
Think water in your brake fluid you don't want it there either.

My background is industrial machinery repair hydraulics, pnumatics everywhere.
I'm not a heavy equipment service tech.

I'm sure there's other people here that are more knowledgable than I am and might be able to help you better.

The Analysis is a good thing to do to all heavy equipment even if it's working fine as it will tell you how your machine is wearing from the inside. It's sort of like a blood test.

Have it done and keep the results so you can compare the 2nd analysis later down the road against the first one and see what changed. You'll be surprised !:msp_thumbup:

 

[380LGR]

Take a stick dip into hydro tank after running for a couple mins when u pull it out if its got air bubbles in oil you have a suction leak.

 

[plasticweld]

Something I started years ago not sure how i figured it out but I run diesel fuel conditioner in my hydro oil in the winter time it helps get rid of the water from condensation and keeps it clear and the right color I add about half a quart. The other thing I do in all of my tanks and in the bottom of the transmission in the skidder is add a couple of cow magnets, these are about the size of your finger and are used to give live stock so that if they swallow any nails that it will not go through their digestive system. They are cheap and you can get them at any farm store. I normally try to put them in the pick up screens on the intake or bottom of transmission, all of your metal will end up on the magnet and will tell you right away if you have problems and also keep and metal from circulation through the system making a bad problem worse ..Bob

 

[BELZONI]

it was air in my oil .... my dumb azz finally cleaned off my site windows and it was looowwwww on oil ..... the reason I THOUGHT that it had plenty oil in it is because when I would pour oil in the tank it would only hold like two gallons and look full ....... it must have a straner in it the size of a screen door ......... anyway ... the loader is working great ... now I have to find my leak ... I THINK its in the boom ... it has about a 10" cylinder enclosed (that I can barely see) ..... I'm just glad my pumps ok ....... thanks for the help guys :msp_thumbsup: