Pricing a Large Job

[Gypo Logger]

I have an opertunity to give a price on removing 12 large Willow trees, average stump dia. 40".
This entails removing all vegetated matter from the property including the stumps.
My estimate includes 10 forty yard bins and their disposal or approx. 250 tons of wood including stumps. Obviously all terminal branches will be chipped and If I can utilize a log truck for some of the bodywood I will, otherwise everything will be blocked and dumped into bins.
I figure an additional 80- 120 yards of soil will have to be trucked on site to fill any gaping holes that removing stumps will leave.
Taking into consideration that I may have to pay for landscaping as well after tearing up the lawn etc., I was thinking 20,000 for the job.
I'm appealing to the professional experience of those that have been there before.
So have I failed to consider anything in my estimate?
Thanks in advance,
John

 

[Lumberjack]

Yeah, your not a urban operator, stick to the woods.

 

[Husky288XP]

Lumbersmack, keep out of it.

 

[Lumberjack]

$20k for 12 trees is $1666.66 a tree, thats alot of tree to justify the price.

I have yet to see a logger do a reputable job in anyones yard even if its flopping a neighboring tree into a clear cut.

Likewise I have never seen a arborist make money doing line clearance doing volume line clearance on a large scale.

I have also never seen an arborist be good at logging, there are hybrid loggers/arborist/line clearance but they are rare.

Hauling in 150 tons of soil to fill holes from stumps will eat the life outta any landscaping that he mentions.

Furthermore if the trees can be done by a logger, they probably dont require much if any climbing/rigging, I could be wrong, so they would be cake to a tree company.

Grinding the stumps would be a much better idea (depending on location, equipment available and soil conditions) to save the truckloads of soil that would be hauled in.

The roll off containers are a good idea, I have used them for a little while now and they make good efficiency for what I need.

If everything can be diced and dumped in the container you could get away with a smaller crew and still have great production. Depending on the arrangement of the trees I would chip into a coupla boxes and then put chunks in the others.

Bringing in something big enough to pop a 40" stump is going to be hard on the ground, if the customer has a concrete driveway it is likely to be busted during the process.

I am unsure if John has insurance to cover himself (workmans comp) and his customers (general liability) to properly insure his work. If he doesnt have proper insurance for a large scale job such as this, doesnt that make him a hack? Arent we against hackdom?

The equipment John has is inherently set up to do logging, he is after all a logger. Loggers are more of production than minimizing impact to a landscaped property, therefore what John sees as acceptable may nearly kill the customer.

I could go on and on, but dairehia of the mouth is quickly constipated by saying :

Yeah, your not a urban operator, stick to the woods.

Do you have a picture of the job John?

 

[ShoerFast]

Gypo
New here, but enjoy your post and inight!
You asked if You failed to consider anything in your estimate? As not a pro tree guy, I have been self employed for several years and if I may, offer what I might consider, who else would be bedding the job? , how bad do you need the work? and what can the client pay? I like the old motto "double it, and add 10%"

 

[kf_tree]

Lumbersmack

try pulling a top out with a truck lately? i bet you wish you were a logger when you smashed the nieghbors house, so you could have hid in the woods.

but then again, you said you would do it all over again. communication was lacking not judgement.

plus you say he does not have the proper equipment? you hand load on a trailer .........

 

[Lumberjack]

I pulled a top later that week with a truck, havent had a situation to pull another top with a truck since that one.

I have used chipper for the last few months when the job called for it, using the trailer on others. Using my trailer and the chipper for 2 months straight, my small time company has grossed over 100 grand in since May with our minimal overhead. Furthermore, I rarely hand load.

I said I wasnt sure if he had the proper equipment, I did not say he didnt. I have never looked into his shop. A skidder would be poorly suited for a front yard, a tractor a skid steer would be good, with a front end loader would be better, and a articulating/all wheel steer could be best.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Yeah, your not a urban operator, stick to the woods.

What a putz!!!

 

[Gypo Logger]

Thanks for everyone's insight.
The tree's are huge and very open grown. Basicly Willow at it's worst.
I'm good at estimating volume, but the subing out stump work and the wrecking of the customers yard may be beyond me. But unless a helicopter is used the yard is gonna get churned up. The customer seems fussy so the price should go up exponentialy to offset any inherant hack job that goes with the territory.
Because it's willow and bigwood as well, the trees will be just as high laying horizonal as they are standing vertical.
Maybe the best bet would be for me to let an arborist run the operation and I run the saw on the ground and do as I'm told if the arboguy knows his stuff.
I don't really need the job and it may be beyond my abilities as far as tearing things up and fixing them.
What if you guys all came out and we have a race to see who can dump,chop, chip and haul their tree the fastest? The trees aren't looming over anything and If I could just dump them and drag them off somewhere like a farm field or something I could do it cheaper.
When we do the Math 1600 a tree sounds cheap and I could lose my shirt, so 30,000 might be better since I don't really need the job.
I'll try to get pictures.
John

 

[Husky288XP]

Whats your motto Gypo, "If you got the money, than I got the time."

 

[kf_tree]

john

what if the customer only wanted one tree removed, how would you price that? price all the tree's individualy then add them up to see where your at. then knock off what you want. having the stumps ground is alot less intrusive than digging bomb crater's.

 

[Lumberjack]

Sounds as though I wasnt far off... As to the price, local costs will dictate the price, I dont know of any 12 trees that have reasonable access that I couldnt do locally for under 15 grand and make good money. Then again we dont have many willows, or trees that are as wide as they are tall AND are floppable.

Pissy/tissy customers could easily add 25% to the total, more if the landscaping is especially lavish/hard to fix. However I have found that preventing the damage is normally better than trying to fix the damage. A all wheel steer skid steer or articulating loader (not a monster) and something to protect the high traffic areas (where the containers are for instance) with thick plywood or alturna mats or another suitable material.

How long do you think the job will take you John?

 

[kf_tree]

I have used chipper for the last few months when the job called for it, using the trailer on others. Using my trailer and the chipper for 2 months straight, my small time company has grossed over 100 grand in since May with our minimal overhead.

i love talking #'s remember X everything by the day by the week by the month by the year and reverse as it applys.

lets look at 100k in 6 months, roughly 16,500 a month and 4,125 a week. i guess thats ok for a part time tree guy /student. but i would have expected alot higher #'s since you guys were hit with a hurricane recently.

now the company i work for has alot higher overhead since they have to pay ME and the small army it takes to clean up my mess's, but 4k is pretty much my daily average. last week i pulled off 13k in 2 days and haven't seen any hurricanes in the north east so far this year.

 

[Gypo Logger]

john

what if the customer only wanted one tree removed, how would you price that? price all the tree's individualy then add them up to see where your at. then knock off what you want. having the stumps ground is alot less intrusive than digging bomb crater's.

Hi Ken, when I look at each tree individually, even 2000 sounds like not enough as there is at least 3 cords in every tree. If I could just hack and stack so to speak I could do it in a week of 4 hour days, but the taking it "somewhere", off site is the scary part.
Lumberjack, you come up with some very good points as well. I think for the total cleanup, it would take me three weeks if I did it alone.
If I could sub it all out I would, but maybe Lumberjack is right and I should stick to the woods, however I genuinely appreciate everyones concern and expertise on the matter.
I'm sure the customer has phoned everyone in the yellow pages for a price. I happened upon it by someone I know that knows the customer. So I guess that's a good thing.
John

 

[Husky288XP]

Gypo,
You could hire Lumbersmack and his chipperless tree service.

 

[Gypo Logger]

now the company i work for has alot higher overhead since they have to pay ME and the small army it takes to clean up my mess's,

Ken, I bet they and the customer are awe stuck when they see you with those 395's just a blazing away. The modified saw changes everything, I wished I had of discovered them when I first picked up a saw to make a living in 1981.
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Gypo,
You could hire Lumbersmack and his chipperless tree service.

Sure, I'd hire Lumbercrack in a heartbeat! lol
He sounds knowledgable enough, but what do I know.
I think we need Ekka, MasterBlaster, Treeco, KFtree and Begley tree and I'll be "Johnny Cash" running to the ATM.
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Even though I'm serious about the job I describe in this thread there is always room for having some fun.
If you guys come and do the climbing Mange and I can be the pimples on your a$$'s, cause we have the cutlery.
John

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

Gypo....felling the trees is no problem. It's hauling away all the worthless wood that will kill ya. Your best bet would be to hire 20 illegal Mexicans...."Now you're logging" Hahaha.....Good Luck!

 

[trzz]

Long time since I last wrote. Gypo. #1 Get a track loader (ASV) with a grapple. You may be able to rent one from Home Depo. I can in my area. Then rent a grapple bucket. ASV.com to look at them. They do tear grass but at 2.7-3.5 psi they at least won't rut the ground (All wheel loaders do rut the ground just not as bad remember contact patch psi to track). Front or backyard? Sawzall for the fence if in back. Also if you can rent 4 in one bucket for the grinds/dirt fill on stump grinder. Other opt. is a good 4 wheeler (not a car/truck) to pull trash to front. If you don't have a good groundy versed in portawrap get one if you are not adept in climbing hire one. Must remember more trees = less per tree (discount on not having to go to multiple locations). One other way to price is by the day. What do you want per day times how many days you think it will take + 1. I hope I have helped.