Pricing Cobra

[treeman82]

Alright. I have a pruning job to bid on for a new customer. It's about a full day's worth with nothing major. However there is a silver maple that needs to be either cabled, or stripped on one side. The customer asked about removing the branches over the driveway, I told him to do the cobra system with some light pruning instead. He wants a price to do it my way. How do you guys charge for Cobra? Going price for the steel cable installed is $15 per foot of cable. I will also need to put about a 2 foot cable into a spruce tree next to the house. Would I be better off to price this job as T&M? I have never cabled a tree before. Got a good amount of experience working on cabling jobs, but never doing it on my own.

 

[o0_TreeMan_0o]

Cost plus $165.00 per hour works good for me!

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

To install a steel cable takes about an hour. A little more for long strands, a little less for short strands.
A cobra takes about half that.

 

[treeman82]

Thanks for the time tip Mike, but about how much should I charge for it by the foot? I would assume that is how to charge?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The steel stuff is cheap, so the length isn't going to affect the cost, other than the extra time.
We use the large cobra size for most installations and there is enough "stuff" for 5 strands in a kit. So your cost on that size is about $75 for the cobra, plus your labor.
It helps to sell trimming the tree as well, that way the customer gets two things done for the price of one climb. If you are up the tree anyway trimming, it's no big deal to throw a cobra in. If the tree needs a cable, it most likely could use at least some trimming.
I think we charge around $175 for steel, and around $225 for cobra, more or less, depending on what kind of car they drive.

 

[trees4life]

We have a policy of not cabling silver maples or other brittle-wooded species. Unless the owner is aware of the risks and is agreeable to a long term committment to ensure the cables/tree are regularly inspected, we don't want the liability.

 

[seanlarkin]

This seems like an appropriate place to introduce our NATMP. From page 51 of our 2002 catalog:
--------------------------------------------------
North American Tree Monitoring Program
NATMP is a program to inform property owners that their tree support or lightening protection system is due for inspection. The program is very simple, has minimal cost, provides long term awareness of cabled trees and puts the burden of keeping trees fit on those most responsible, the land owner!
The program works as follows; your installer fills out a form with detailed information about a particular job, has the customer sign it (liability waiver is included) and leaves the customer a copy. The form details (very logical) reasons to monitor their tree’s cable installation and the fee required ($10) to keep them in our registry. If paid (by them or you) and returned to us, we will mail a letter to that physical address on years 1, 3, 6 and 9 for monitoring and year 12 for adjustment or possible relocation, at this time the program for that property can be renewed for another fee or will be cancelled (file information is preserved). We feel that this is an important step in conditioning awareness about the need to maintain important trees (just as one might do for an auto or pet). Your company’s name and number will be included in the scheduled notifications.
Pad of 100 duplicate forms.....$10
--------------------------------------------------
-Sean

 

[TreeJunkie]

I looked at a job tonight where a customer called me out to look at their elm tree 40" diameter. They wanted to price dutch elm treatment. Also upon arrival i noticed the tree had an old cable installed in it only about 10 feet above a large crotch which shows extensive included bark. The cable obviously was installed incorrectly; as it was placed to low in the tree as well as there was to much sag in the cable. A bit further up the tree there were a couple of ideal places to strategically place a couple of cobra cables. Each would need to be about 20-25 feet long.

I have plenty of experience installing cobra however i've never been the guy to try to price it. So i came home and whipped out the sherrill catalog and started figuring out the costs of the materials and the hourly. I estimate approx. 1.5 hrs to install each cable and i would need an assistant on the ground to help me out. Thus two men approx 3 hrs on site. Total supply costs i've figured to be around $95 and i figure adding 50% to that for my work of ordering product and shipping expenses.

Total costs are looking like this:

Labor $420.00
Supplies $142.50

Grand total $562.50

Total cost per cable : $281.25
Does this seem about right to you?
Seems sorta high to me but that's how the math added up. The labor seems kind of high but i just figured in my regular man hour rate. Considering the tree i figure it should take every bit of the 1.5 each i've allotted.


Any thoughts? I still haven't quoted the customer a price on the cables and he didn't scoff at the $680.00 i quoted him for the Arbotect injection so do you think i may be able to fly the nearly $600 cabling job???

 

[Stumper]

Brendon, It seems high but I haven't seen the tree. Why do you need a guy on the ground? I Usually figure Cobra at $100 per span.-Of course if it is a difficult and time consuming installation then the price needs to go up.

 

[TreeJunkie]

It's a big tree and span is pretty big so install will be a little timely. I alway like having a guy w/ me on the ground while climbing. Particularly w/ trees of any significant size just in case in may need something while aloft or if god forbid i might strangle myself while aloft w/ the cabling supplies. Not that he'd be able to come save me anyways. And by the time emt shows up i'd be long dead.
I suppose I could lower my groundsmans man hour rate a bit being that he won't be doing a whole lot, but if i can't get the same rates cabling as while trimming then why fool w/ it.

 

[Lumberjack]

Labor seems high, but I have only installed 3 cobra cables. I cant see an hour and half for 1 cable, but I havent seen the tree either.

For me, if I cant get over to the second leader with my first TIP, then either use the retreever or, worst case senario, drop to the ground and reset my climbing line in the other side. I just cant see it taking a hour per cable. It normally takes me under 20 minutes to install a cable with the leaders being under say 15' apart.

You say 25' apart (tops). Worst case do 2 climbs per cable, but that shouldnt take 45 minutes assuming we are under 100'.

1.5 seems mighty long for me... Average time for my 3 cables was something like an 45 per cable, and that was dead wooding 2 of the trees as well.

SRT rocls for cabling.

 

[Lumberjack]

I price Cobra about the same as stumper. It's super easy to put up and I always do it by myself. I use a Massdam rope puller to pull the limbs together some so the cable is taunt when released.

Depending on your deff of taunt, taunt (over 5% of tensile I think) is unacceptable for long term use as per Cobra's literature.

 

[Lumberjack]

I am just applying what I know, forgive me.

How long have you been applying the tension? Any long term (3-5 years) inspections? Results?

 

[TreeJunkie]

Tree Co,

So in your experience what's it worth to install it?

 

[Lumberjack]

I think that screwing a customer is wrong. Sometimes extra money is needed for the risk, however getting gready will bite you in the rear.

If you charge your price, get done in half the time, and return the extra money, you will have a raving fan.

Honesty is the best policy. I have broke the policy several occasions which makes me stupid, because I know better. Short term gains for long term repercussions..

 

[Lumberjack]

For me, 50 an hour on the job works out to being fair for the service, experiance and professionalism I provide.

For many hours or 3 men the numbers change. Eggs are cheaper by the dozen and their is that law of deminishing returns.

Spend 10 years being honest and spend the rest of your life living on the dividends. I am working on finding what is honest and maintaining it, gotta swallow some pride every once in a while. We are here to make a living, not get all we can for what we do. I dont see why an honest person couldnt be smart enough to make an extremely comfortable living doing tree work and some similarly related fields for diversity.

 

[TreeJunkie]

In no way do i feel charging 420 for the labor would be screwing the customer. I charge many customer those rates for regular pruning work. I don't see how cabling should be any different. If anything maybe higher considering the long term liability.

My hourly rate is usually 75 an hour/arborist 65 hour arb. assistant --140 an hour for a two man crew. Considering skill and education i have no problem charging a little more per hour here than some of the other hacks/ big cos. in town. I however still charge less than my uncles and or Ryan lawn and tree here in town. My uncle's co is charging 85 & 75 an hour plus haul and dump fee around $85 per Around here some clients are willing to pay those rates.

TC,

You're prob right about total time to install the cables. I was also figuring in my time for setup and break down. No doubt the second cable will go much faster than the first. No telling on the first it's been about a year since i've installed any. However it may come back to me. And afterall, it's just like splicing; and i've been plenty busy w/ that this year.

Thanks for the input guys.

Anyone else have some tips or ideas?

LJ, so what would you charge? You weren't implying i was trying to rip anyone off were you???????I may have taken that wrong.

 

[Lumberjack]

You did, I was speaking broadly, not directed at you. I appoligize for that impication.

Installing the cables IMO shouldnt be more than pruning. The risk is accepted by the customer.

I think 3 hours for 2 cables is too much, even if we are talking roll on to roll off, if the trees are safe to climb I dont know of any trees in my area I couldnt install 2 cables in under 2 hours, roll on to roll off.

Hows about 2 hours labor, plus material? Keep in mind I havent seen the tree.

Or 3 hours and if it takes 2 hours give them some amount of a break. Make them crazy about it and your honesty. That way you can drum up more buisness which means more $$$ in the long run.

Or, you could also offer deadwooding/trimming while your up their, just an idea.

 

[Treeman14]

This seems like an appropriate place to introduce our NATMP. From page 51 of our 2002 catalog:
--------------------------------------------------
North American Tree Monitoring Program
NATMP is a program to inform property owners that their tree support or lightening protection system is due for inspection. The program is very simple, has minimal cost, provides long term awareness of cabled trees and puts the burden of keeping trees fit on those most responsible, the land owner!
The program works as follows; your installer fills out a form with detailed information about a particular job, has the customer sign it (liability waiver is included) and leaves the customer a copy. The form details (very logical) reasons to monitor their tree’s cable installation and the fee required ($10) to keep them in our registry. If paid (by them or you) and returned to us, we will mail a letter to that physical address on years 1, 3, 6 and 9 for monitoring and year 12 for adjustment or possible relocation, at this time the program for that property can be renewed for another fee or will be cancelled (file information is preserved). We feel that this is an important step in conditioning awareness about the need to maintain important trees (just as one might do for an auto or pet). Your company’s name and number will be included in the scheduled notifications.
Pad of 100 duplicate forms.....$10
--------------------------------------------------
-Sean

I'm glad you mentioned the NATMP, Sean. I just started using the forms this year. My customers have been very impressed by the program. It shows our long-term concern for the health of their trees.

 

[hobby climber]

Does anyone offer a course on cable installations so one could get some kind of certification??? How about books or any other literature on how to do it properly??? (keep in mind that I live in Canada) I'm missing to many opportunities for cabling jobs and it looks like a lot of fun but I want to learn how to do it right! HC