Problem with starter/recoil

[Chris J.]

I put some finishing touches on the Jred 90 tonight. Tried several time to get it to start, but no go. I noticed that when I pulled the rope it felt really notchy??, & it was grabbing, not smooth at all. I eventually poured some mix in thru the spark plug hole, & in the carb (which isn't exactly easy on the Jred 90). After a few more tries it actually started & ran for maybe 20-30 seconds. When I tried starting it again the pull was still notchy, grabby, & sometimes wouldn't catch at all. I had the recoil off of the parts saw, so I put that on the saw. Again the pull was notchy & grabby, & eventually it quit catching period (rope would pull, but wouldn't engage). Since I tried two different recoils, I'm thinking that there's a problem with the flywheel.

I'm more than a little lost here. All advice & input is appreciated.

Chris J.

 

[KickingBack]

on the flywheel

Hi Knothole;

Hey I was just working on an 015 that was haveing that problem. Need to check the pawls on the fw and springs. Not sure if there is a min and max on the spring tension. They both had lots of **** on the pin for the pawl that there was too much to over come for the lightness of the springs plus one was not on quit like it should have been. Anxious to get it put back together and see what there is for compression on this puppy. I can show you this for some other Jonsered that I would be pretty sure yours is something on the same order. http://www.arboristsite.com/attach/9526.pdf
Hope this helps some. I ain't the best at splainin.

--
KickingBack

Happy Thanksgiving to all, Specially The One to give the Thanks too.

 

[Chris J.]

Thanks, Kickingback.

I cleaned the pawls & the top side of the FW pretty thoroughly; also cleaned the back as thoroughly as possible without removing the FW. I haven't dealt with this b4 (not that I'm any where close to being a MechTech). The pawls seem to move & snap? back okay. The springs don't seem to be shot, & I don't see any way to adjust them. I'm going spend some more time on the saw either tomorrow or Sat (gotta hang around Sat anyway for FdX to bring me a guitar!). If all else fails I'll swap FWs from the main saw & the parts saw. To be honest I don't like removing FWs unless I really have to; probably something that I need to get over.

I've also tinkered with/worked on a Jred 670, but the recoil on that saw is nearly flawless, even though it took quite a few tries before the saw even thought about starting.

I'll post something once I spend some more time on the saw. Post an update on your 015; I'd be curious to know how it turns out for you. Hope that your TG is going well!

Anyone else with advice on dealing with a grabby recoil? Just think: Your knowledgeable advice could help to reduce this poor saw's sufferring. In other words, I need some help here.

Chris J.

 

[KickingBack]

Back on a works

Hey Knot Whole:

I see I spelled it wrong the first time. haha
On the 015, I put the thing back together today when my Son-in-law was here with me and had him help with a compression test. The recoil works flawless which I was really happy with. The compression test could have been a little better. Got 110. But not trustworthy as it is a pushin fit tester and seems to not get a desecent fit with the houseing in the way a little. But the 015L I use all the time has only given me a high of 115 with this tester and it is a strong little runner. With the 12 inch bar on it I cut anything I can with it and then switch to 20 inch Jonsered 2159. Or if it is all nice easy place I use a Poulan 4000 av. That thing is a work horse. Surprised it runs even, since I had an air leak in it one time and thought it was carb freezeup and or adjustment. Must have had 10 mins total at different times at very high rpm. But fixed problem thanks to talk on here and then knowing what I was seeing happen.
This is a great place to learn stuff. Thanks to all you guys out there for your patience with some of the same questions over and over and putting up with us unknowledgeables.
U know I am with you on the flywheel deal and not wanting to take them off. But so far every time taken one off was easy and easy to put back with impact wrench.
Well off to be more with Family. (wife, hehe, yes) So have a good one and thoughts of best of Holiday to you

--
Charlie (KickingBack)

 

[Mange]

Compression testing.
Do have info from Stihl that say how much compression is requierd? Is it a tester with rubbed end, or threads?

Jonsered.
If you put fuel in carb. and cylinder, and something good happend, I do not think you have a weak spark.
I Always change to a new plug when trying tho master thease things.
My guess is not electrical, more on fuel side.

 

[KickingBack]

Tester

Hi Mange;

The tester I have is with the rubber end that you have to push hard on and crank over engine at same time. Wanted to get a threaded tester but just have never gotten around to it. Maybe now would be a good time u suppose?

I don't have the info on what Stihl says should be for compression but then don't have a schematic of the saw with parts numbers either. That would be helpfull for sure. Do have the carb layout for it from the Walbro site but rest of it no. Looked some but haven't found it yet. Any ideas where??

I agree with you on Knot Wholes saw. If it ran for 20-30 seconds sounds like he getting spark needed but not fuel. Could be something there as simple as filter. (but doubt it, as nothing is ever that simple it seems) But then again, hey I even tried starting a saw without gas in it once, so............(they really hard to start that way I can tell you, hehe)

Hopeing Christmas brings a time of joy and peace to everyone heres life (with the meaning of Christmas it is assured to sometime, when Gods purpose is worked out) (got to look ahead sometimes, and the looking ahead can bring the peace into the here and now.)

--
Charlie (KickingBack)

 

[Mange]

Knot Whole.

I proberbly is not the best to answer, but I got curius.
When you have saw on/off button Off, and pull, does it act the same as when off?

 

[Chris J.]

I'm definately glad that the saw

has a good spark to get it started--one less thing to worry about. I can turn the flywheel by hand & it turns smoothly. I don't have compression tester. If my memory serves me (hah) there is a thread here for rigging-up your own.

I checked my Stihl CD--nothing for the 015. Also checked the Stihlusa website. They list the 015 & you can request an owners manual or a safety manual. I could've sworn that previously you could choose either the owners manual or a parts list! Maybe that's an option when you fill out the form, or maybe you can email them & ask for 015 PL.

 

[Mange]

The thing of this test is that you can see how much is comp, and how much the combustion helps out.
Helped me a few times.
The timing off the spark could be off.

 

[Chris J.]

Thanks, Mange.

I'll need to try that & post a response. Another thing that I'm going try is both recoils on the parts saw; I've already tried both recoils on the main saw. Hopefully I'll be able to post some good news. Would the timing being off make the recoil notchy & make it grab? Please understand that I have little experience with small engines, especially chainsaws (like that isn't obvious!).

My fear is that by continueing to try the recoil without knowing what's wrong I might damage the saw in some way. I have enough damaged saws :Monkey: !

Knot Whole is just my attempt at humor. Call me what you want, just remember to call me for dinner .

Chris J.

 

[Chris J.]

Good & bad news.

I again cleaned off (purple stuff & air compressor) the pawls on the main saw. One of them seems to snap back a lot quicker now. I also think that I might have a problem with the recoil from the parts saw; not certain. The original recoil that came on the saw seems to be working okay--a little notchy, but no more grabbing & no more refusal to engage.

On Saturday I could get it to start & run for maybe 10 seconds at a time. I initially had to pour mix in the carb & the spark plug hole, but eventually the saw would start & run briefly without the 'priming.'

Bad news: This evening I tried to start the saw every way that I know--a few times it came close, but it would never actually start. I tried opening up the idle a little, but no luck. Same with the low carb setting.

Folks, I'm grovelling here. This saw is so close, & yet so far. I know that this has been covered before, possibly ad naseum, but I'm really lost. The saw is getting spark, it's probably getting fuel, but it now won't start at all.

If any of the MechTechs here at AS have been thru this, please share your diagnostic process & solution. I REALLY appreciate ALL input from EVERYONE who's trying to help. AS rules because of its members!!!

Chris J.

 

[sedanman]

How does that saw get its impulse signal? I have seen 2 stroke engines start on choke or a prime but refuse to stay running because of no impulse. I fix a few trimmers a season that have the impulse port plugged with carbon. There are some that swear they have seen engines run with no impulse but if the saw can run without impulse, why is there an impulse system? if the saw gets impulse from an internal passage, take the carb off smear a little white grease or vaseline over the pulse port and pull the rope a few times, the grease should have been disturbed by the pulse. If this checks out, it's one more thing off the list.

 

[Chris J.]

Paul, thanks for the advice.

I have no idea what kind of impulse system this saw has. Keep in mind that I'm using a parts list that doesn't actually give the part names, a Clymer (Intertec?) manual, & what ever info that I can find here at AS. I'll post some photos tomorrow night; been meaning to take some saw photos anyway.

I'm going to try to post the parts list that George Blake kindly emailed to me.

 

[Chris J.]

Jonsered 90 parts list, part 2.

Hopefully.

 

[Chris J.]

Jonsered 90 parts list, 3rd & last.

Hope this' working-I'm on dial-up.

 

[sedanman]

By the looks of things, that saw has an impulse passage rather than an external hose. If it had an impulse hose there would be a hose connecting the crankcase to the carburetor, none is shown in the pictures. Look at the gasket 4130401, see how it has those two little holes? They are to allow impulse to get to the carburetor. Impulse is the changing pressure in the crankcase that causes the the fuel pump in the carburetor to work.

 

[sedanman]

I also didn't see anywhere that you had actually inspected the piston by looking in the exhaust port with the muffler removed. A scored piston will unfortunately act as the saw you are describing. I had a Partner cut-off saw give an impressive 125 psi on a compression test with a piston that you would not shoot out of a cannon! A toasted cylinder will even run if you pour a little mix in it. Check the piston before we try to revive a dead horse.

 

[Chris J.]

Thanks, Paul. I've checked the piston

from the exhaust side & the carb side--everything looked good, keeping in mind I've never pulled the jug. I can try to get some photos tomorrow or Thu.

Re gasket 4130301--I think that this gasket was included in the carb rebuild kit that I purchased, & it is installed correctly. If I pull the carb to get some photos of the cylinder I'll be sure to double check it.

I guess what has me perplexed in the fact that on Sat I could prime it, get it started, then continue to get it started well after the initial priming fuel had been used up. Then on Mon I couldn't get it started at all, even after adding fuel thru the carb & spark plug hole. Obviously there's a lot I still need to learn.

More info to follow, & many sincere thanks to those who took/take the time to help.......Chris J.

 

[Ranchero50]

It's possible you fouled the plug out Monday. The learning curve on these little F'ers is pretty steep. You can pop the fuel line off the carb and check for fuel there (if so then the fuel priming system (impulse, diaphram, etc) should be working). Double check the spark out of the saw (I made a jumper wire with aligator clips to ensure a good ground path). I usually take a plumbers blue bottle torch over the electrode end of the plug for a couple seconds to clean it up if it's sooty or wet.

Best of luck.

Jamie

 

[cbfarmall]

015 impulse

Paul,

I got an 015 I've been messing with off and on for the last few months. It has never run right. I can get it started and do a little cutting with it, but it would lose power and over-rev after a few seconds. And I could never keep the carb adjusted properly. I knew there was some sort of airleak so I shelved it before I ruined an otherwise perfect saw.

When I finally got around to diagnosing the problem, I found that the wrong gasket had been installed between the carb block and cylinder, effectively blocking the impulse. Plus, the gasket between the carb and block was missing a chunk providing the airleak. Got the parts to fix it and all should be well.

BTW, did you get to use that 1/4" bar I sent you? I should have checked before I sent it out. The sprocket that came off the saw was a decent 1/4" spur. No matter--the 3/8 lo-pro narrow kerf is actually quite fast.

Later, Chris B.