Pulling over a cottonwood - need help

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NebClimber

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I need to remove a 3' dbh Cottonwood sitting about 4' from a house. I can pull it over, but I want to make sure there are no special issues with Cottonwood. This is a pretty large tree near valuable property so I don't want to take any chances.

Your thoughts?

Steven
 
While cottonwood has a deserved reputation for brittleness the trunk wood generally behaves consistently. Despite self-proclaimed experts saying that Cottonwood will not hinge reliably I have not found it so. I find that cottonwood can be felled across leans and placed reliably with conventional and tapered hinges. Those hinges WILL fold and tear at greater thickness than some other species. If the tree is not leaning /weighted toward the structure then just set your tag line, make a good face and backcut it without worry.:angel:
 
Don't be shy to get up there and rope out some limbs, if that would make it safer. I rarely get the chance to throw a whole tree.
 
Hahaha!

That's a fact! I'm posting three more vids tonight, and guess what kinda trees? :D

The sister town across the river is called Pineville. ;)
 
I have dropped many cottonwoods if they are alive they will behave like any other tree. However I have also seen them barberchair if there is much lean to it. One way to avoid this is to rap a chain around the trunk about three feet off the ground and use a crank up chain binder to hold it together. I have done this several times on trunks that you can tell are split and they will drop with relatively no problems. I would use a heavy duty chain though. Biggest I have dropped was 5' 6" across when laying on the ground that will make alot of dust and shake the ground when it hits.:cool:
 
Hey
Are we talkin Populus deltoides or canadensis?
If it is canadensis it will hinge great in my experiences!
Lots of fiber tearing but great hinge wood!
Leave about 3-4 inches of hinge if you want it to really work the hinge!
It seems weak but I think it is just a illusion!
Later
John
 
I agree, John, that the weakness of Cottonwood is often an exageration, especially at the butt. I've watched closely the extent of Cottonwood failure from wind and ice storms, and haven't noticed a greatly significantly different failure rate from other trees. But I think it's because they tend to have a high taper rate from trunk to branch tip. (I don't see a lot of long, spindly branches on Cottonwood). They definitely are more brittle that the average tree, but wholistically, because of the branch taper, they don't fail as much as expected.

But are you actually differentiating the wood of a Populus X canadensis from the parent Populus deltoides? I'd venture to say the relatedness of the two renders them almost indistinguishable. I could be wrong, but I've always thought a Cottonwood is a Willow is a Cottonwood, wood-wise.

Chucky
 
Originally posted by Chucky
(I don't see a lot of long, spindly branches on Cottonwood).

The opposite here, perhaps different species or our longer growing season.
 
Here ,hybrid cottonwoods are very long and spindley branched. Native Fremont Cottonwoods are moderately spindley as juveniles but demonstrate more rapid branch taper at maturity. Green Cottonwood has enormous ammounts of water and carries huge weight loads-part of the reason it seems brittle-it is naturally loaded closer to failure than some other species. I find that trunk wood it quite reliable and even large branches will hinge with some consistency(and they handle strong winds surprisingly well). The big boy I felled last week slapped off about 4/5ths of the leafy twigs upon impact-perhaps that qualifies as a touch brittle at the twigs.:D
 
Very interesting, Stumper. Our Cottonwoods here in upstate NY are almost all species Cottonwood, Populus Deltoides (of course with a few Lombardy Populars, but nothing like what Ontario, Canada, has). The branches mostly all are real thick off the trunk and will extend out quite a ways, but in comparison with most other trees, the ratio of the girth of the branch off the trunk, to the length of the limb, is relatively large. (The twigs, of course, are very brittle). I see this simply as a structural evolutionary compensation (since the chemical composition of the wood itself might not evolve as fast), due to thousands of generations of the species under selective pressure by gravity, winds, ice, etc.

That's why, as I see it, certain brittle-wooded trees don't fail nearly as often as we'd expect during storms. They've evolved structural compensations that perhaps we don't see so readily. Other trees that haven't failed nearly as much as I've expected during severe storms are Calery Pear, Zelcova, and Silver Maple. I have no explanation for these trees' relative resilience to storms, but I've seen them survive comparatively unscathed, while perfectly healthy Oaks, Hickories, and Sugar Maples have failed. Of course, my observations are not scientific, just anecdotal. I'll admit there's a lot of bias in personal observation, so maybe some feeback can prove me wrong.

Chucky
 
The largest cottonwood I've ever been in (I'm second from the left, wearing white socks :D):
16420.jpg
 
Originally posted by Chucky
I agree, John, that the weakness of Cottonwood is often an exageration, especially at the butt. I've watched closely the extent of Cottonwood failure from wind and ice storms, and haven't noticed a greatly significantly different failure rate from other trees. But I think it's because they tend to have a high taper rate from trunk to branch tip. (I don't see a lot of long, spindly branches on Cottonwood). They definitely are more brittle that the average tree, but wholistically, because of the branch taper, they don't fail as much as expected.

But are you actually differentiating the wood of a Populus X canadensis from the parent Populus deltoides? I'd venture to say the relatedness of the two renders them almost indistinguishable. I could be wrong, but I've always thought a Cottonwood is a Willow is a Cottonwood, wood-wise.

Chucky

Hey Chucky
The reason I stated the reply like I did is I have never worked on deltoides and some people call all populars Cottonwood.
I just did not want to make a comment on something I have no experience with and I have a boat load of time in canadensis.
Later
John
 
My hat's off to you, John. Cottonwoods are scary. Our salesman used to make sure he wasn't around when we showed up for a job after he won a Cottonwood bid. We HATED Cottonwoods with a passion -- they're just so dang HUGE. I can tell you, frankly, I played groudie taking down most of these. Another tree we depised I'm sure you're familiar with up there in Canada is the Golden Weeping Willow (Salix alba). These gnarly things, as I'm sure you're well aware, can reach gargantuan proportions at the base, just like Cottonwoods can. You can get one that co-leadered early in age that can be 30 feet around 8 feet in the air. I've been lucky lately that on occasion I've have access to an excellent ex-logger ground man who has the bars for this kind of crazy wood.

And, we haven't even MENTIONED the notorious disease-riddled Lombardy Populars that unfortunately were over-planted in Ontario years ago. More power to you, John, for dealing with THESE death traps!
 
Hey Chucky
Around 10 years ago there was a ton Lombardy's around the Toronto area!
I haven't really noticed but I don't think I've seen one in a while. Maybe we got them all!:blob2:
Ya, I know wishful thinkin!
Later
John
 
I would say that about 2/3rds of the trees that I work on are Populus Deltodies. Granted the the smaller branches are quite brittle but the trunk wood is very fiberous and hindges well. I think Justin has a point there as to the water content of these trees causing much of its brittleness. I cant count the times when I have removed a cottonwood and after I made a topping cut the water literally Poured out of the stem of the tree. The one thing you do however have to look out for when removing a cottonwood is that the trunk does have a tendancy to decay much more rapidly than any other tree speices I have ever worked on. But for the most part all ya gotta do is get a line up as high a possible, rig up a Z rig with a French Prussik as a back up, leave a fat hindge and pull her over. I love pullin over big a$$ trees like that. You will be surprised as to how fiberous the butt section of the tree is. And for those of you who dont believe me. Try splitting some big chunks of cottonwood for fire wood some time. Its a pain in the butt because it is in fact so fiberous.

Oh and for the record Nick that tree is tiny compared to the one Justin showed me last week when I went down there to climb for him.

Kenn:Monkey:
 

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