Pulp, PNW style

[catbuster]

To each his own, but I run predominately 336 and 349 (70,000 and 100,000 lb) machines. I can run them just about anywhere. Just gotta start in one place and work your way in to a site, among other things you have to know to run these machines efficiently.

They're also really comfortable moving big sticks, you don't really fight them. I ran my old 315C a couple weeks ago and it felt like a midget machine. But I do understand how you feel about large machines, especially if you don't have a ton of seat time. There are ways to work around damaging driveways and other stuff, but it comes with time.

 

[northmanlogging]

Its the maintenance, fuel, moving, and cost, that ultimately gets me.

yes a larger machine does more easier

But it costs as much or more to operate.

Though I still don't see why bigger is better always, some jobs a smaller machine gets done just as fast as a big machine, but costs less to operate.

Some jobs require a massive machine (I don't want anything to do with jobs that size),

Also keep in mind logging isn't dirt work, nimble to me is more important than power.

Which brings up the same ole question, why in the hell do the big outfits have to have 300 sized loaders, when 10-20 years ago a 200 class loader was good enough, and the wood was bigger then? Its not like they are chucking an entire load on the truck in one go, the drivers would have a coronary.

Far as I can tell all a big machine on the landing is going to do is create more of a headache with tight landings.

 

[madhatte]

Only way I can see that penciling out is if the bigger machines have bigger parts that wear out slower moving smaller wood, leading to (net) lower parts and mechanic costs? Otherwise I can't see the fuel and repair expenses for a bigger unit not outweighing the speed gain.

 

[catbuster]

Only way I can see that penciling out is if the bigger machines have bigger parts that wear out slower moving smaller wood, leading to (net) lower parts and mechanic costs? Otherwise I can't see the fuel and repair expenses for a bigger unit not outweighing the speed gain.

On a 336 that's very true, the main gains over a 329 is reach. But over a 200? You're spot on. Much heavier parts that last twice as long. The fuel burn is negligable when calculating operating costs, especially when between reach and power, with the good operator caveat, a 70,000 lb machine is close to twice as productive in any application with only a ~25% percent increase in fuel.

Something that's also worth noting is that 40,000 lb machines of twenty years ago are pretty comparable to today's machines in that size class. A 325 is now a 329, and with that weight has come an increase in power and productivity. It's the same with what used to be a 330 that was once just an oversized 320 that has become a 336 and a borderline production class machine(comparable to the old 235). With a focus on efficiency I don't see a good reason not to run a larger machine with economies of scale kicking in. Sometimes looking forward and not back to the old timers is the way to go, albeit they did a lot of things better than we're often forced to today.

But that's my take. A 329/290 is probably the sweet spot as a shovel for the wood that's being moved today, but for clearing/grubbing, road building and dirt work there is no downside to moving up two size classes to a 70,000 lb machine in my experience.

And man is it nice to be able to have a civil conversation about this.

 

[northmanlogging]

The big wear parts on big machines, pins, undercarriage, bushings etc wear about as fast as a smaller machine. Bigger machine bigger pins.

The pump and motor are the big uh ohs, as well as drive motors etc, all wear out, and none of its cheap.

There is also the added cost of needing a crane to work on just about anything on a bigger machine. (granted not a big crane, but we're talking service truck and $150 an hour plus trip charge)

 

[ArtB]

Need to put this thread on 'ignore?'

All this big machine talk is making my mouth water - have thought to get a 120, but am just an old retired 'hobbyist logger'.

So, seriously, since I only use a machine 20 or so day a YEAR for DIY purposes (and often only for a few hours at a time), is there any advantage of me having a 120 size machine other than as a 'toy'? Have seen 'needs work' 120s for under $20K. Would have to build a bigger barn to work on it? I do 100% of own mechanic work.
Maybe just as an excuse for a bigger crane too

Present stable are JD440 track loader, 440IC, 853 bobcat with backhoe, and Ford 4500 with backhoe. I can still haul those around when needed with pickup truck and trailer. Have been able to load a 24 ft 30 in dia green fir log onto trailer with the 440 and 20 ft diy crane on the back.


Wife/kids/grandkids not too keen (well maybe 2 of the grandsons) on me getting a bigger or even another machine as they worry about selling it when I die.

 

[northmanlogging]

machines hold their value once they are a certain age, like 20 yrs or so.

kinda why i like buying used junk... they're easy to fix and when done you end up with a real gem.

the 120 sized machines are a little hard to find that are not junk though... folks wants em bad.

really though unless you have some heavy digging a backhoe is probably better. Even though i really like the essavator, if i wasn't logging iI would have kept the backhoe

 

[northmanlogging]

... though backhoes suck on any thing not level, or mud, or soft...

tracks is nice...

 

[ArtB]

Have tracks for the bobcat, fit over the tires, work surprisingly well. Since the bobcat wheel drives are hydraulic, that provides for a big hydraulic capability for the backhoe attachment.

Only thing heavy I'd have is a few over 8 ft dia fir stumps where the springboards were about 8 foot up , but think I will leave them for 'posterity'.

Probably would succumb to a 120 if I found one for scrap metal prices <G>

 

[northmanlogging]

if ya find one that cheap don't wait jump on it... missed several that way

 

[northmanlogging]

Yup... threw a track twice this week, broke the dumper truck on monday... rocked every chain I got... tough week, but the end is near.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

End is near on the property? Or do you only work certain days? Either way looks warm... and green still! It's been white here for a while. Ground is froze fairly hard too.

 

[northmanlogging]

nearly done with the job, though I do only log 4 days a week, still have a day job, but its part time now.

There is a reason this is the evergreen state... that and all the kanikanik other wise, lots of fall color this year, only frozen a couple of times so far.

 

[northmanlogging]

So the vid from last week is still on a smurt fone that currently has several calk shaped holes in the screen

But here's todays vid

 

[madhatte]

Nice clean work. Maybe think about bidding on some of our smaller sales, so's we can get some of that. Not to say that our usual contractors don't do excellent work, too, just, y'know, the more the merrier.

 

[northmanlogging]

Gub-a-mint has a reg where I can't do any export for at least 2 years.

So that reg right there kind of shoots me and anyone else around here in the foot, Looked into it a while back, and I've been doing less export lately, but there is only one place that takes everything, and thats the exporter, so if i have a mixed load, it gets exported... Stupid rule...

 

[madhatte]

No exports here. Fed land. Just sayin'.

 

[northmanlogging]

yeah... thats muh point, to log yer particular fed land, I can't do any business with an exporter for 2 years... kind a stupid really, its one thing to say hey no selling this wood to jiiinah, but to demand I don't sell other wood to jiiinah kind a BS.

So for now, no fed work fer me.

 

[northmanlogging]

A little update on this particular job...

Got all the slash removed yesterday, minus on stump and little brush.

4 loads there abouts in a 60 yd end dump, I figure I burned 3 loads.

Most of the pulp type wood ended up getting cut for fire wood by friends neighbors and family, which is fine cause I didn't feel like limbing any of it.

Still a dumper truck load ish of fire wood I intend to either bring home, or sell to a neighbor for cheap.

And one gyppo trailer load of cedar, probably around 1mbf maybe a little more, but I'm waiting on tires for the dumper truck (yes its on blocks in the front yard...)

All told I'm into the slash disposal right around $3000, would have been closer to $6000 if I hadn't burned everything, and gods knows how much if the 7-8 cords hadn't been cut out of the tops and the ceder bow guys hadn't taken 4 loads of limbs.

Get the ole dumper truck moving again and I can start moving equipment out.

 

[woodfarmer]

I've watched all your videos on this project, why did the customer want every tree removed? What's the distance between the trees that are left and the lake?