question for all about hot(racing)chain

[chainsawworld]

i have made many a race chain and can measure the differance in speed with the use of a squared cant and a stop watch.
what i want to do now is be able to measure how far a chain will travel in one complete revolution. the best possible way i can come up with is to slightly change the shape on one cutter so it will leave a differant imperfection in the cant, a signature perhaps. this will tell me that in one complete rotation of a sixteen inch loop, the chain travel one inch. or what ever the case may be.
dulling or adding a differant shape cutter will not help. this will change the chain speed too much. i am only interested in doing this on hot chain.
paint and marker will not work because it will wear off to fast to get the correct information. i will be running these on hot saws and dialed in stock saws.
any help???????? marty

 

[Stumper]

Marty, Approach your question from the other direction. Take your RPMS in the cut. Calculate your chainspeed based on rpms and sprocket pin count. (Using driver count you can figure out loop revoplutions per minute). Use your actual cut times to figure out the number of loop revolutions in the cut. Then you can get the average kerf removed per loop revolution.

 

[Chopwood]

Chainsawworld-
Have we run across each other on the circut at all. I live in Fulton,NY and have been racing for about 12 years.
Chopwood aka Andy Schreiner

 

[tony marks]

yep stumper pretty smart.. cant say id use what brain energy i got left to find out the answer to the question..im just about to get back where ive always been.
if it cuts well.. holds up good with good maintenance,,and is dependable as to working with little trouble..well im satisfied..altho im glad my saws are modified.. but stumper that took a lotto knowing to figure out.. altho i dont really pursue it..i ll know whoto ask if the question ever gets to botherin me jus too much..lol. yall have a good new year now.

 

[ozflea]

Wouldn't mind seeing some pic's of these Hotsaws of Marty's they sound kinda interesting.
Bob Cornwell.........ozflea........Australia

 

[Crofter]

Chainsawworld It also should show whether the cutter is taking the shaving all the way across or give an indication of what percentage of time it is cutting. Hadn't thought of Stumpers way of coming at it but it is good. Food for thought

 

[Lawn Masters]

While we're on the topic of chains, I'd like to know, is it possible to make a square filed semi chisel cutter? I'm just wondering because the it came to my mind last night, and got me to thinking.

 

[scottr]

square filed semi chisel

Hey Rob , not long ago tony marks started a thread on his square filed 95 chain . Scott

 

[Lawn Masters]

I'll look for it. Thanks.

 

[ccicora]

Why don't you just measure the thickness of the chips then multiply it out from there.

 

[MOE]

Moe

Why not fabricate a hand crank bar(resembling a chopsaw). You could have it pivot on the crank end and have wieghts the other end to use gravity to keep your tests consistant.

 

[Crofter]

Chainsawworld, I calculated it out to about a tenth of an inch per revolution of the chain. This in 10 inch round. I have seen the evidence of what a long tooth does. The gouges in the endgrain nearly an eighth of an inch apart. If someone wants to run out the math, I used 14,000 and change rpm, 8 tooth, 60 driver, 10 inch wood, 3 seconds. I am guessing about 2 inches run of cut for a tooth to fill the gullet

 

[chainsawworld]

chopwood,
i am sure we have. i started in the mid 80's but only got serious in 1990.
i've run in pa.ct,ny,nj,ohio and mich. if you like to compete send me an e-mail and we can compare event locations.
oz,
here is a pic of what used to be a stihl 056. good saw for chainsaw appearing or started as a chainsaw. i may have a skidoo engine for my unlimited classes. marty

 

[glens]

If you want to find out what difference differences to the chain make, you're going to have to isolate every other variable.  The only way you're going to be able to do that would be to use robotics to operate the "saw" and probably use engineered timbers for consistency in the wood (but would that only tell you about chain cutting engineered timbers?).

Variations in the human (operator) element will undoubtedly influence a great deal.  Even with the best of the best the speed of the saw likely fluctuates a bit.  Then there are the variations that will inevitably occur in the way the engine runs from one moment to the next.

I'm thinking some high-speed computers/programs and robotics operating an hydraulic, pneumatic, or electric "saw" motor would be in order to really get to the bottom of the chain factor.

Glen

 

[chainsawworld]

a great deal of stock saw compitetion is keeping the saw running at its peak. the operator has to listen to the powerhead so not to over-rev or over-bog in the cut. when the rpms are heard slowing down, the cutter has to lighten up on the pressure to the wood. same as when the saw picks up too many rpms he has to apply pressure. stuffing the saw or slamming the saw into the wood is also a problem as that will stall the chain before you ever get started. tilting the saw side to side will also slow down the cut. to attempt to have a machine apply the pressure would call for closely monitored hydraulic pressure. marty

 

[glens]

Talk to Al Smith about what kind of intricate things can be done with robotics.

While I'm certain an expert human's response time is phenomenal, a multi-thousand-dollar setup like I vaguely described would be the ticket if a person <i>really</i> wanted to get down to the nitty-gritty.&nbsp; A fast computer monitoring RPM and/or torque on the motor in real time could "drive" the rig with the utmost in precision.

Glen

 

[sedanman]

To test chain in this manner a gasoline engine is not the way to go. Instead, use an electric motor where there is a lot more torque and less chance of other factors affecting the test results. A double ended bar with 2 electric powerheads where the weight of the wood (gravity) controlled feed with a high speed camera would be very accurate to measure chain efficiency.

 

[Crofter]

Complications?

Aren't you guys making things more complicated in view of what Marty was wanting to establish? I am waiting for someone to pick holes in my math.

 

[chainsawworld]

if at all possible, i would like to keep each chain on its own powerhead.
marty

 

[Stumper]

Frank, There are holes in your math but the biggest problem is lack of data. WHat are the RPMS in the cut? Surely not 14000+??? Your log is round. While it is possible to figure outy the average length of kerf and extrapolate the average depth of kerf removed at 10 inch diameter based on data from cutting a round.... who wants the brain strain only to have added more variables?