Question for skidsteer/diesel eng. gurus

[Curbside]

I would agree with Totally Stumped. If you are planning on mowing basically every day I would not waste time with skidsteer/mower. Instead get a dedicated mower unit like a Fecon 140 or Gyrotrack 18 or Kodiak Kutter. They start around 160 000 and go up some a lot faster than others.

 

[LabLuvR]

Keep it up guys! I really appreciate the info! Fyi, I'm exploring going into the business and want to know the good and the bad with these machines. I live not far from the Gyro place in SC and will definately look at those machines as well. Where I will come up with the 100k difference I don't know just yet.

The reason I like the skidsteer type unit is the versatility vs. a dedicated machine. No doubt the dedicated would hold up better. But at this time I'm still trying to determine what the market is for each type of machine.

A dozer is dang good machine, but has it's advantages and disadvantages as well. I've got the truck to pull the unit. Thanks for the tips guys and feel free to share more opinions.

 

[Totally Stumped]

Having a good dealership nearby is essential and a good service or parts guy is worth his weight in gold. My service manager has walked me through countless problems on the phone and saved me thousands. On top of that, you need to locate a few good welding and hydraulic shops in your service area. I recently cracked a chrome rod on the hydraulic cylinder of my tree shear and had a hard time finding a shop to weld it up.

Before you buy a machine, check out the parts department and compare prices on hydraulic couplers, hoses and other common replacement items. Proprietary parts suck. Make sure the machine you purchase can live on a diet of cheap hydraulic oil like WalMart 10W-30. When a limb falls and breaks a coupler you will see firsthand what 41 gpm at 3300 psi looks like!

Next, check out the rental department and see if they carry the exact same machine and attachments you want to purchase or something very similar. In the highly likely event you need to take your machine in for service, its nice to know they have a rental in stock that will allow you to finish the job you were on.

My advice would be to specialize in one or two things and not be a jack of all trades. Here's my reasoning: multiple jobs take multiple attachments which require lots of different spare parts, a bigger trailer, bigger truck to pull it all, etc. Not many parts interchange between a hydraulic hammer and a Fecon mulcher. Believe me, you will buy plenty of attachments even if land clearing is the only thing you do.

I know mulchers are all the rage right now and they do have a place but don't overlook a 20" tree shear for skid steer land clearing. $8500 will get you into a brand new 20" Tree Terminator which is a very stout but mechanically simple attachment. Another $8000 will get you into a Davco rotary brush mower and allow you to tackle up to 4" stuff-anything bigger, use the shear. I don't think you can touch a new mulcher head for $16,500 and this would give you two of the toughest attachments on the market. Then, buy a set of replacement hoses and couplers for both units, grease up the zerks and get busy.

Compare replacement mulcher tooth cost with shear and mower blade cost and you will go for the shear/mower combo in a heartbeat. Also, compare tooth replacement cost between the mulcher heads you are looking at-its a significant operating expense.

Check out what your competition is running. Being the first guy on the block with a new car or boat is OK but not for a machine that you use to earn a living and especially not for a machine you are going to beat the $hit out of back in the woods. If all the old guys run Cats, its probably for a reason.

Good luck!

 

[LabLuvR]

Stump,

I agree with everything you mentioned. I need to be very smart and figure out all of this before I plunk down 90k. A buddy of mine told me he knew of a guy who bought a mulcher head to go with his "low flow" skid steer. Reckon that guy did his homework first? What about the salesperson who sold it.

Anyway back to topic. My Cat dealer mentioned today the Davco cutter as a great tool. The way he talked, the Davco could do almost what a mulcher head can at half the cost. I came back and checked them out on the web. That thing is a BEAST!! Since a mulcher is rated tohandle trees around 6" and the Davco 4", there isn't a lot of difference in capabilities is there?


The tree shear is an awesome idea in tandem with the Davco. I stumbled upon Fecon's on the net and was wondering what application it may have in my business and what advantage it may give me over the competition who has a mulcher head only.Thanks for bringing it up, I need to review that idea some more. Since you are more familiar than I am, any more ideas on how I could use those two tools to my advantage over just the mulcher would be most appreciated.

Btw, I demoed the Cat today and like it a lot. I'm still not sold on the ASV as they don't seem to be near as maintenance friendly as the Cat, plus their is only one dealer in my area who just started carrying them about six months ago. I've not heard great things about their service. With all that in mind,I'm still evaluating the Cat vs. Bobcat and slightly leaning toward the Cat with the tire/track combo.

Any more thoughts anyone would like to share would once again be highly appreciated. Thanks for all the great information, it has been invaluable!

 

[Leebo]

Great post, Stumped.

 

[Totally Stumped]

www.bardaequipment.com for the Davco

www.usmower.com for a similar rotary mower but made in USA

www.treeterminator.com for the shear

www.skidsteersolutions.com for everything else

Wouldn't be afraid to buy any of these used as they are all simple designs with few moving parts.

 

[Totally Stumped]

Lab,

Skid steers just don't produce the hydraulic horsepower necessary to achieve the single pass clear-the Holy Grail of land clearing. Instead, you have to sit there and gnaw on the big stuff and make repeated passes with the mulcher to reduce the stuff. Personally, I think mulchers make an unholy mess and are good for a hunting lease, a rough clear or to reduce slash. They will not produce a park-like effect on heavy brush in an efficient manner. If your customer is willing to pay for you to stay out there for days and burn hundreds of gallons of fuel, then a mulcher might work. There's too many cheap dozers around here for that. BTW, the mulchers make shorter sticks and shreds-it does not look like a bag of Home Depot mulch when you get finished.

Here's how a lot of guys clear land: Run over all the small stuff with the rotary mower. Switch to the shear. A shear will give you the closest ability to a dozer but will cut the stuff off at ground level instead of ripping it out of the ground and making holes. At that point, you need to burn, stack, haul off or grind the brush so you will need a grapple or rake. I leave burning to my customers but wil arrange haul off or grinding.

That's three attachments and all three will probably run about what one mulcher head would cost. But, you gain a lot of speed and flexibility with the three attachments. A big multi stem yaupon or cedar is one bite for a 20" shear but it might take ten minutes with a mulcher. Now multiply that ten minutes by the one hundred big a$$ yaupons on each acre-see how it adds up in time and money on heavy brush. I've been on places I literally had to carve tunnels through the brush!

This is a tough business to go it alone, for many reasons, and I suggest you find a partner running a similar set up. Two skid steers can get a lot done with one guy shearing and the other mowing, raking or grappling.

 

[LabLuvR]

Stump,

The only thing that really bugs me about the shear is the tree is still there. Our outdoor burning laws are starting to impact residential, and especially
commercial burning, one of the major reasons mulching is an up and coming business here. We also have several lakes in the area that are experiencing pretty good growth, along with the area in general. As I look around, I'm thinking my niche may be the commercial and residential areas. Just need to get out and actually talk to the potential customers to see what their needs are. Otherwise, I'm just pure T guessing.

 

[Yellowdog]

I
The T-300 has a decent high flow rate at 38 gallons per minute at 3300 psi. It turns the mower at a decent speed and decent horsepower.

I think the Bobcat is actually 37 gpm at 3300 psi.
Have been using Bobcat's to run brush mowers for about 4 years. I just moved up to an s300 K back in February and just bought a CAT HM312 (FAE) which seems to be a great match for my Bobcat. Had been running a Tushhog. I see less wear and tear on the machine using a brush mower than I do with a tree shear or heavy dirt moving. The only exception I have found is radiator cleanings and total machine cleanout is more important and must occur at regular intervals to keep the "fluff" out of the compartments. A good shop vac and some patience works fine for that.

As long as you don't use the brush mower as a bulldozer, you will be okay. You can mulch just about any size soft wood and many larger hard woods if you are patient and use finesse. As far as a tracked versus wheeled machine. That would depend on the application. I use solid filled hulk tires in very rough, rocky conditions. I used to run over the tire loegering tracks but gave them up because of the extra weight and frequency of getting logs and rocks stuck in the tracks. If you are in soft conditions, tracks are a must, because a brush mower will require forward and backward motions over the same areas.
Hope this helps..

 

[Yellowdog]

Lab,

A big multi stem yaupon or cedar is one bite for a 20" shear but it might take ten minutes with a mulcher. Now multiply that ten minutes by the one hundred big a$$ yaupons on each acre-see how it adds up in time and money on heavy brush. I've been on places I literally had to carve tunnels through the brush!
.

Good points!

 

[Curbside]

Thanks for the correction Yellow Dog. Yes it is 37 GPM at 3700 PSI. Not sure if I hit the wrong key or was having a brain lapse. I was open to the Bobcat web page for the specs and I still typed it wrong.

 

[Curbside]

Still doin it. 37gpm at 3300 PSI. There I got it right this time.

 

[LabLuvR]

I've pondered the tree shear, problem is disposal of the tree. Outdoor burning is becoming more restricted as time goes by here. That is one of the main reasons the mulchers appeal to me. We also are experiencing pretty good growth in the area and along a big lake in the vicinity increasing market potential

After I demoed the ASV, Cat and Bobcat, I would say at this time it's a toss up between Bobcat and Cat. Cat would have a slight advantage as their experience with mulching in my area is a little bit stronger than BobCats. The forestry package on the Cat seems to be the mackdaddy.

 

[neighborstree]

the biggest and baddest, never get stuck in the mud machine is the asv rc100. not to mention the most compact fot your doller. you can haul it with a dually pickup. the come stock with a 80 to 115 hp diesel. besides the rayco i would go with the asv any day of the week, my problems i have has with bobcat is lack of power. here i am climbing a small hill in the woods after knocking down a 100 foot beach tree. the bobcat has a log in the grapple bucket i would guess weighs 2500 lbs..i gotta stop every 3 feet or so to let the motor come back up to high rpm's to even move, to say the least it took me days to finish the job witch was bided at one day lol...ill never rent or own a bobcat ever again...there tire machines are great. track machines should have atleast 100 hp.. i mean they have tracks , does the manufacture expect us to used them as glorified whell barrels lol i like that

 

[Curbside]

What size of Bobcat is that? I know for a T300 2500 lb is a walk in the park.

 

[neighborstree]

it was a rental t300

 

[Big Jim]

I would almost be willing to bet that the T300 you rented needed a fuel filter service.We rent them to mow hillsides and containment dikes when the grade is to steep for our own machine(773G Turbo Hi Flow)with the grousers.
I have also used a T300 to move large wood and didn't have any problems .
The grades that the T300 will go up and down are directly proportioned to the operators ability and balls .Common sense is always a plus.
A T300 is in the 100 HP range Isn't it?

Know Guts Know Glory

 

[neighborstree]

by the way you guys talk this machine up and down up temted to go buy one tomarrow lol..i guess i rented a piece of ???? then lol..i bealeve that it comes with a 81 horse kubota

 

[Curbside]

It does come with a 81 hp Kabota. I know ASV says theirs is 105hp. Funny how the machine specs at basically the same as Bobcat. Lift, Hydr flow etc. I would also say that if you were having that kind of problem with lifting 2500 lbs chunks of wood that their was mechanical problems of some sort.

 

[stumpjumper83]

wheel loader?

Just a question here, have you looked into the wheel loader option? A medium sized wheel loader might be a better tool. A 136 hp case 621d has 45gpm @ 2000 eng rpm @ 3600 psi, alot better than even the largest skid steer.
Then you have the fact that the loader handles rough terrain much better. It is also much more gentle on tires. It will also be easier on you when your operating, think operator comfort. The gross machine weight is higher but when you figgure in the weight of the head, that might be a good thing, I think that you might be aproaching tip weight when working a grade. Also wheel loaders have the float option in the loader controls which might be handy.
Yes they cost more, but I think that you will be able to be more productive with it and get more hours out of it. But the tire issue with skidd steers will cost you probably $2,000 per 300 hours if your running foam fills. Lots of options...