kam
ArboristSite Operative
John;
Let us know if the next competition is in
southern Ontario. I'll be there
to watch you win.
Kam
Let us know if the next competition is in
southern Ontario. I'll be there
to watch you win.
Kam
Racing Chain by Art Martin
- Thread starter Gypo Logger
- Start date
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Walt Galer
ArboristSite Operative
Howdy John,
Thanks for the generous offer, but first of all, a round at the Frontier would likely only be a couple of us, and secondly, the place does not take cards. Credit yes, cards no. Problem is the 2% fee. Don runs the joint on only 2%! That's Montana 2% Buy for one, sell for two!
If you are in no hurry, I'll see if I can come up with a chain, etc. will have to setup one of the chaingrinders and blast a place to work in the shop. I printed out your last, so I have the info.
Just had some excitement around here. My dog Cindy was barking at a coyote through the patio/deck doors who was over on the otherside of the little valley below our place. I let her out so she could send him on his way. This one turned and came straight towards her. I called her in, grabbed the shotgun and walked out to the fence corner and stood behind the telephone pole. Sure enough he came up over the rise in the field. When he saw me lower the cannon, he started away and I let fly with a blast of #6 bird shot at a range of almost 75 yards, way too far to do anything but dust off his feathers. He was last seen going over the far hill north of here at about the speed of light heading for Canada. I doubt if he will be back in the states. Keep your critters on that side will ya?
Regards,
Walt Galer
Thanks for the generous offer, but first of all, a round at the Frontier would likely only be a couple of us, and secondly, the place does not take cards. Credit yes, cards no. Problem is the 2% fee. Don runs the joint on only 2%! That's Montana 2% Buy for one, sell for two!
If you are in no hurry, I'll see if I can come up with a chain, etc. will have to setup one of the chaingrinders and blast a place to work in the shop. I printed out your last, so I have the info.
Just had some excitement around here. My dog Cindy was barking at a coyote through the patio/deck doors who was over on the otherside of the little valley below our place. I let her out so she could send him on his way. This one turned and came straight towards her. I called her in, grabbed the shotgun and walked out to the fence corner and stood behind the telephone pole. Sure enough he came up over the rise in the field. When he saw me lower the cannon, he started away and I let fly with a blast of #6 bird shot at a range of almost 75 yards, way too far to do anything but dust off his feathers. He was last seen going over the far hill north of here at about the speed of light heading for Canada. I doubt if he will be back in the states. Keep your critters on that side will ya?
Regards,
Walt Galer
Art Martin
ArboristSite Operative
Tundraotto,
The reason I use Carlton for my 3/8" pitch chain is because when I first heard of it, I was in contact with Sven Johnson ( 7 time world speed cutting champion at Hayward, Wisconsin) and he recomended it to me. He told me he used Carlton exclusively for his racing and record setting events. He also said he would sell the chain to me at cost if it was for racing. That was a hard deal to turn down at that time. I just got used to it and prefer to use it although Oregon chain is probably just as good. I used Oregon 1/2" pitch chain for many years because Homelite used to sponsor me and gave me all the chain I needed for free as well as the 2100 model to keep it in first place at logging events, in California, which I did for over 2 years. I did switch to the Stihl 090 when I competed at the P.N.E. in Vancouver, B.C. and really liked their saw.
Art Martin
The reason I use Carlton for my 3/8" pitch chain is because when I first heard of it, I was in contact with Sven Johnson ( 7 time world speed cutting champion at Hayward, Wisconsin) and he recomended it to me. He told me he used Carlton exclusively for his racing and record setting events. He also said he would sell the chain to me at cost if it was for racing. That was a hard deal to turn down at that time. I just got used to it and prefer to use it although Oregon chain is probably just as good. I used Oregon 1/2" pitch chain for many years because Homelite used to sponsor me and gave me all the chain I needed for free as well as the 2100 model to keep it in first place at logging events, in California, which I did for over 2 years. I did switch to the Stihl 090 when I competed at the P.N.E. in Vancouver, B.C. and really liked their saw.
Art Martin
Kevin
Addicted to ArboristSite
Nice shooting there Walt.
It stumbled across the border and collapsed at my feet.
It stumbled across the border and collapsed at my feet.
Rotax Robert
Addicted to ArboristSite
The experts of the race chains and you know who you are, are all right in some degree or another... Race-Chain setups are dependent on the type and size of the wood to be cut.
There is a BIG difference between 19"-20" white pine and cottonwood, fir or other species and going to the 30" logs or 8"X8" lumber.
That being said, the only test of one chain to another is on the same saw, bar and setup from one chain to another. There are many other variables that come into play when different saws are run and operaters come into play.
Short of running the big engines (stihl series type and size) where times are fast and HP, chain speed and mostly technique show off; a true chain expert shows up at the stock saw shows and WINS !!!
Oh yeah and one last note, if your chain is faster than mine, you better cover it up....I just might take a peek
There is a BIG difference between 19"-20" white pine and cottonwood, fir or other species and going to the 30" logs or 8"X8" lumber.
That being said, the only test of one chain to another is on the same saw, bar and setup from one chain to another. There are many other variables that come into play when different saws are run and operaters come into play.
Short of running the big engines (stihl series type and size) where times are fast and HP, chain speed and mostly technique show off; a true chain expert shows up at the stock saw shows and WINS !!!
Oh yeah and one last note, if your chain is faster than mine, you better cover it up....I just might take a peek
tundraotto
Addicted to ArboristSite
hey kevin - do all the american coyotes turn into wolves when they cross the border? and i think you were kind of early (this apparently happened today) to take walts coyote since your ski-doo looks like its from 20+ years ago (maybe you just took good care of it).
PS. where is the chainsaw - lol
PS. where is the chainsaw - lol
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Hi There, sometimes it is hard to do justice to a picture, especially on macro. The light reflects and refracts causing optical illusions. The following pictures were takin with a Sony FD88 with a 16X zoom and a closeup lens attachment. Photography can sometimes be as involved as filing. I only manipulated the brightness of the pictures so as to see how sharp the top plate is.
John
John
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
More Razor Chain by Art Martin
husky 2100
ArboristSite Lurker
question for Art what file do you prefer to use. alot of the competors around here use the goofy but i seem to have the best results using the six sided file
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Oh, I forgot to reply about the coyote thing. I dont think coyotes are particularly agressive to humans by nature, it is just that they are loosing some ground due to land developement. So the less dominant ones cannot take over anothers range, thereby causing it to be on the run and subsisting by being opportunistic, hence the attacks. Coyotes are masters at survival and sometimes cross breed with other canines which further the problem. Here is an arcticle on Coyote attacks in Vancouver.
http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2001/07/10/coyote_010710
No rush on the chain Walt, I can send you some 72CL, 72LG or some 33RS if you cant find any in your tickle trunk.
Thanks again to all,
Coyote Ugly
http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2001/07/10/coyote_010710
No rush on the chain Walt, I can send you some 72CL, 72LG or some 33RS if you cant find any in your tickle trunk.
Thanks again to all,
Coyote Ugly
chainsawworld
ArboristSite Guru
john,
looks like walt has done it again. i disagree with things in his post. why create hook buy creating a large gullet? the chain will chatter in the cut or completely stall. it is important to lighten the chain but, believe or not, it can become to light. one 16 inch racing chain takes me between 6 and 8 hours to compete. by looking at art martin chain i do a little more them him. his cutters are the perfect size but the rakes do need some work. have some faith in walt, as soon as he dons his skirt and lab coat he will justify his comments. i believe he did work in a chain factory.
protect yourselves(especially with racing chains) marty
looks like walt has done it again. i disagree with things in his post. why create hook buy creating a large gullet? the chain will chatter in the cut or completely stall. it is important to lighten the chain but, believe or not, it can become to light. one 16 inch racing chain takes me between 6 and 8 hours to compete. by looking at art martin chain i do a little more them him. his cutters are the perfect size but the rakes do need some work. have some faith in walt, as soon as he dons his skirt and lab coat he will justify his comments. i believe he did work in a chain factory.
protect yourselves(especially with racing chains) marty
Walt Galer
ArboristSite Operative
Howdy Art,
One of the advantages of Carlton for racing chain was always the fact that the drivelink was .050 all the way, not coined down on the tang to .050 from .058 around the rivet holes. This was yet another help in lightening up the chain. I'm not sure if this still true or not, having not been able to come up with a Carlton chain for John's project. Carlton is so poorly represented here that no dealer has any. I found one lost reel of full skip down in Kalispell, and it in .063!
The coined drivelink makes a chain stronger in tensile strength, but less suitable for high speed. Also there is a chance of the coining step catching sidelink bottom wear burrs and contributing to tight joints. The Swedes always used this arguement as why they always wanted .058 gauge all the way. Myself, I prefer the coined drivelink for normal use.
John,
If you can find a loop of .050 Carlton 3/8 chisel no guardlink, please post it to:
Walt Galer
PO Box 1443
Eureka, MT 59917
If UPS:
656 Spring Ln.
As for the coyote, I already have 6 locals looking for work, and no Canadian immigrants needed! I have a pair of Llamas to hold the coyotes at bay, but this Canadian didn't know about such things I guess and was on the place anyway.
These things do better when people do infringe on their territory. Near my daughter's place in Abbotsford B.C. (suburbia) a family lost their cat to one, and persued it to a hole, where they killed it. They found 38 cat collars in the den! Obiously he had not been short of anything to eat! Coyotes have even moved into downtown Vancouver to raid garbage cans, and are now seen in Stanley Park.
Regards,
Walt Galer
One of the advantages of Carlton for racing chain was always the fact that the drivelink was .050 all the way, not coined down on the tang to .050 from .058 around the rivet holes. This was yet another help in lightening up the chain. I'm not sure if this still true or not, having not been able to come up with a Carlton chain for John's project. Carlton is so poorly represented here that no dealer has any. I found one lost reel of full skip down in Kalispell, and it in .063!
The coined drivelink makes a chain stronger in tensile strength, but less suitable for high speed. Also there is a chance of the coining step catching sidelink bottom wear burrs and contributing to tight joints. The Swedes always used this arguement as why they always wanted .058 gauge all the way. Myself, I prefer the coined drivelink for normal use.
John,
If you can find a loop of .050 Carlton 3/8 chisel no guardlink, please post it to:
Walt Galer
PO Box 1443
Eureka, MT 59917
If UPS:
656 Spring Ln.
As for the coyote, I already have 6 locals looking for work, and no Canadian immigrants needed! I have a pair of Llamas to hold the coyotes at bay, but this Canadian didn't know about such things I guess and was on the place anyway.
These things do better when people do infringe on their territory. Near my daughter's place in Abbotsford B.C. (suburbia) a family lost their cat to one, and persued it to a hole, where they killed it. They found 38 cat collars in the den! Obiously he had not been short of anything to eat! Coyotes have even moved into downtown Vancouver to raid garbage cans, and are now seen in Stanley Park.
Regards,
Walt Galer
Kevin
Addicted to ArboristSite
Walt,
When they infringe on the moose population we turn them into rugs!
Here`s two we called out and dusted off this past fall...
When they infringe on the moose population we turn them into rugs!
Here`s two we called out and dusted off this past fall...
Art Martin
ArboristSite Operative
John,
Thanks for re-taking the close-up on my cutter. After reviewing the first set of pictures, I could see why Walt criticized my filing ability. The shadow on the cutter made it appear to be blunt which is certainly misleading. I will address the other points on Walts post later. Please send Walt a new chain so he can do his one-hour galerizing on it and get it back to you on the same day return mail.
Art Martin
Thanks for re-taking the close-up on my cutter. After reviewing the first set of pictures, I could see why Walt criticized my filing ability. The shadow on the cutter made it appear to be blunt which is certainly misleading. I will address the other points on Walts post later. Please send Walt a new chain so he can do his one-hour galerizing on it and get it back to you on the same day return mail.
Art Martin
Walt Galer
ArboristSite Operative
Howdy Art,
Sorry for the misunderstanding! In no way was I criticizing your filing ability. I just would have gone some different routes, and that in itself is debateable. There is every chance that my proposal might be "too much chain" for the saw he is intending to run on. I will seek to help out on this by suggesting he run a spur sprocket instead of a rim, and I will file the face back a bit further than I would normally, allowing for the small saw. Now if he could only come up with a good roller nose bar?
Regards,
Walt Galer
Sorry for the misunderstanding! In no way was I criticizing your filing ability. I just would have gone some different routes, and that in itself is debateable. There is every chance that my proposal might be "too much chain" for the saw he is intending to run on. I will seek to help out on this by suggesting he run a spur sprocket instead of a rim, and I will file the face back a bit further than I would normally, allowing for the small saw. Now if he could only come up with a good roller nose bar?
Regards,
Walt Galer
Walt Galer
ArboristSite Operative
Howdy Kevin,
Those look near too big to be Coyotes! Are you sure you did not shoot the neighbor's dogs?
Regards,
Walt Galer
Those look near too big to be Coyotes! Are you sure you did not shoot the neighbor's dogs?
Regards,
Walt Galer
Kevin
Addicted to ArboristSite
Walt, that there`s your common Timber Wolf.
Art Martin
ArboristSite Operative
Hi Walt
No problem. If you want to change from you’re your first hypothesis of cutting the tooth forward from the rear, that is a good decision. I stopped doing that over 30 years ago because it didn’t work. I used to do that for logging shows that had a boring requirement. The problem I encountered with that was, although I could bore faster, I lost time on the remainder up and down cutting time. I also prefer a spur sprocket but I don’t see a problem with rim sprocket since both chains would be run on the same saw. With this exception, if the chain you intend to use is old and stretched out, it’s over, because the pitch would be changed and would cause a lot of friction on the drive links as they try to seat themselves on the drive sprocket. This friction is then doubled when you use a sprocket nosed bar. That is why I don’t use sprocket nosed bars as a rule. All my racing bars have a roller tip. Of course you know all this, but since this is a learning forum, I am bringing this out for others who might be interested in getting into this growing sport, and don’t need to make all the mistakes that I made on this long journey. A roller tipped bar to accommodate a chain with 60 drive links would be nearly impossible to find. Best regards.
Art Martin
No problem. If you want to change from you’re your first hypothesis of cutting the tooth forward from the rear, that is a good decision. I stopped doing that over 30 years ago because it didn’t work. I used to do that for logging shows that had a boring requirement. The problem I encountered with that was, although I could bore faster, I lost time on the remainder up and down cutting time. I also prefer a spur sprocket but I don’t see a problem with rim sprocket since both chains would be run on the same saw. With this exception, if the chain you intend to use is old and stretched out, it’s over, because the pitch would be changed and would cause a lot of friction on the drive links as they try to seat themselves on the drive sprocket. This friction is then doubled when you use a sprocket nosed bar. That is why I don’t use sprocket nosed bars as a rule. All my racing bars have a roller tip. Of course you know all this, but since this is a learning forum, I am bringing this out for others who might be interested in getting into this growing sport, and don’t need to make all the mistakes that I made on this long journey. A roller tipped bar to accommodate a chain with 60 drive links would be nearly impossible to find. Best regards.
Art Martin
tundraotto
Addicted to ArboristSite
if you guys want roller tip bars in the 20" length look at the gb bars - they go from 16" to 36" with the roller nose. only in .058 from what i have seen so i guess that is useless for your awesome chains due to the extra weight factor.
HomeDelight Man
ArboristSite Operative
Hi All, I have a roller nose bar that carries 60 drive links. It is on a Super EZ Homelite with a full wrap handle. Jonathan
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