Ready to Help My Log Splitter but...

[Wood Doctor]

I've been told that I wasted my money. The current cycle time is about 30 seconds under zero load. That's what time it takes to go all the way from left to right with no log being split. It's a Brave with an 11-gpm pump driving a 4" cylinder with a 5 Hp Briggs engine that doesn't miss a beat. The owner's manual says it should require about half that much time.

This splitter is at least 18 years old and using the original hydraulic fluid and Fram filter. I estimate at least 900 hours or running time is on board. So, I decided to buy a new filter and change the hydraulic oil. I have not done it yet but I bought both. Did I waste my money? Please advise.

 

[jrider]

Holy smokes, paint dries faster on a dry day.

 

[cantoo]

Has the cycle time always been 30 seconds? Even a 5 hp engine should move it faster than that. Sounds to me like you need to do a bit of trouble shooting before you spend more money.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Thing is, the splitter has good splitting force, slow as it may be. Not much will stop it. She plows right through elm crotch. So, I still think I'll change out the fluid and the filter and check all the hoses when I do that.

Say, is it possible that somebody put a few marbles in the hoses as a practical joke or prank on the original owner? I've heard that story before.

 

[absrio]

let us know what the new filter does if anything. it will be a good learning experience for many.

 

[Wood Doctor]

let us know what the new filter does if anything. it will be a good learning experience for many.

Will do. I'll try a controlled experiment and clock it three times cold and warm, before and after the filter change. I've had so many opinions on this situation that I don't really know what to expect. Quite a few have said that changing the filter means nothing to cycle speed because the filter is on the low pressure side.

 

[cantoo]

Anyway to jerry rig the lines to eliminate the filter altogether? When I built my new one I just stuck the hoses in pails of oil to get the lines all full and make sure things worked. That's how I found out the inlet line was collapsing before it caused any expensive damage. Just take the line off before the valve and shoot it into a pail, 2 seconds and you will know. If lots of oil then hook it back onto valve and take the hose off at the cylinder and stick that end in a pail. 2 more seconds and you'll know if the valve is the problem.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Anyway to jerry rig the lines to eliminate the filter altogether? When I built my new one I just stuck the hoses in pails of oil to get the lines all full and make sure things worked. That's how I found out the inlet line was collapsing before it caused any expensive damage. Just take the line off before the valve and shoot it into a pail, 2 seconds and you will know. If lots of oil then hook it back onto valve and take the hose off at the cylinder and stick that end in a pail. 2 more seconds and you'll know if the valve is the problem.

I'm sure I can do this, but then one has to wonder the purpose of the filter on a hydraulic log splitter. I have noticed that many here and elsewhere have made home-built splitters without filters. Do filters cause more problems than they solve? I have to wonder. That's worth a discussion.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Holy smokes, paint dries faster on a dry day.

To think that I thought 5 seconds on my processor was almost slow. Could split 6 rounds for each 1 of that unit!



250-300hrs on hydraulic filters are normal. Maybe a bit longer depending on the equipment.

 

[Wood Doctor]

To think that I thought 5 seconds on my processor was almost slow. Could split 6 rounds for each 1 of that unit! 250-300 hrs on hydraulic filters are normal. Maybe a bit longer depending on the equipment.

That's why I am investigating to solve the problem. Does that make sense?

 

[GM_Grimmy]

I'm sure I can do this, but then one has to wonder the purpose of the filter on a hydraulic log splitter. I have noticed that many here and elsewhere have made home-built splitters without filters. Do filters cause more problems than they solve? I have to wonder. That's worth a discussion.

A good filter housing would have a bypass and a gauge on it, so you could tell if you were bypassing and needed to change the filter.

As for your problem, too many things. Time to try one and narrow the possibilities down.

 

[cantoo]

Replumb just to test the filter. If you never touch the oil you could likely get away with no filter forever. Lots of people say that most contamination to hydraulic fluid happens when people check the levels and get dirt or water inside. I'm talking about closed loop things like wood splitters, presses, lifting systems etc . Tractors that have different things hooked into them all the time get contaminated when hooking up different attachments and dirt on ends etc.

 

[cantoo]

As for filter changes on a wood splitter I have no plan of ever changing mine. My new splitter will likely get less than 50 hours a year on it so doubt I will ever change it. Closed loop system, no need to check fluid levels unless I break a hose. Oil puddle under it or over heating will be a quick sign of oil loss so no need to open cap up to let dirt in. I've had my Speeco for years, put tons of hours on it and never intend to change the filter either. When I use the Speeco I work it hard so it gets pretty hot, this should get rid of what little water (condensation) ever gets in. Oil for both was out of sealed containers. Home owner machines, not commercial use.

 

[ray benson]

Brave Logsplitters
http://www.braveproducts.com/archive_support.html

 

[kevin j]

What do you mean by 'filter' ?
If on the return side, valve back to tank, no it won't change anything if plugged. It should go into bypass.

If it is a suction strainer or filter, yes it can cause cavitation and slow time and damage pump. Especially if it was a suction strainer (usually wire mesh) can and someone put a finer filter can in its place.

Pitch the suction filter, or put a strainer spin can in its place.
Put a 10 micron filter on the return side where it belongs, and is needed.

I would never build one without a return filter, and a filtered breather, and I change the element every couple years, and don't change fluid at allif water is kept out.
But log splitters only get a few hundred hours in their life, so people get by without filters, or never changing.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Does the engine abnormally labor while the hydraulics are cycled without a load?

Off hand it sounds like worn/damaged component(s) although an 11gpm is fairly anemic with a 4 or 5" cylinder.

 

[muddstopper]

My guess without actually looking at the machine is that the pump is stuck in the low flow high pressure mode. The 11 gpm two stage pump only puts out about 3.5 gpm of flow. This would explain the slow speed yet plenty of splitting power.

 

[muddstopper]

Think of your two stage pump as two separate pumps. One pump will pump 11gpm at a low pressure, the other pump will pump 2 gpm at a high pressure. When there is no load on the pump, the high flow low pressure side is supplying the oil flow. Once resistance is reached the high flow pump stops pumping and the low flow high pressure pump takes over. This allows the pump to be able to produce a high pressure at low flow without the need for a high hp engine to pull the pump. Since your pump is still producing high pressure to split with, but the speed/flow seems greatly reduced, the probably problem is most likely with the high flow low pressure side of the pump. This would be an internal problem since these pumps dont have externally mounted unloader valves. The problem could be a simple piece of debri lodged in the unloading valve preventing it from shifting between high and low, or could be a serious as the gears being stipped off the high flow pump section. either way, having a return filter will help protect the rest of the system. I dont subscribe to the theory that a closed hyd system doesnt need a filter. In every pump, you will have metal to metal contact and this creates wear and tear. This wear and tear produces little bits of metal that can enhance the wear factor of not only the pump, but the spools in the control valve and the piston and bore of the cylinder. Putting a hyd system together without a filter is just suicide for a log splitter. also a log spiltter hyd system isnt a closed hydraulic system.

I would take the two stage pump apart and give it a good cleaning before spending any money on any other parts.

 

[Wood Doctor]

First of all, it does slow down to an even slower stage and exert more force when the going gets tough. Then practically nothing will stop it. So, I think the pump's switchover shifting mechanism is working--hi-to-lo and lo-to-hi. I checked with the previous owner and he says his brother bought the Brave in 1987 prior to his untimely death in 1999. At one time, it was used on a regular basis, likely 100 hours a year, but it's been almost dormant for 15 years. Frankly, I'm surprised the cylinder seals are still good and that the engine runs flawlessly. The control valve is a little weak on the automatic return, occasionally stubborn, but most of the time that works also.

The filter is the original, installed 29 years ago, and it's on the low-pressure return side. The hoses worry me the most. By some miracle, they don't seem to be leaking anywhere. I think replumbing is a must here, but it's easy to be lazy when you have something that works, even if it takes an extra coffee break to get the job done.