Really disgusted with Kohler....

[avalancher]

I have a Husqvarna garden tractor, and it is the workhorse around here. Powered by a Kohler 25hp Command engine. With 10 hours on the engine, it blows a head gasket on the right side. That was back in 04.
I have replaced this head gasket 5 times now, and nobody seems to be able to tell me what is causing it. I have replaced the muffler(tech rep said a plugged muffler could cause a high head pressure, sounded good at the time) checked exhaust temps from one cylinder to the other, both are within 20 degrees of each other.
Now of coarse this engine is long out of warranty. I have plenty of documents to show that this problem started right out of the box, but Kohler refused to do anything about it. This time when the gasket blew the head warped, costing another 150 bucks to replace.
Anyone have any ideas of what could cause this problem? All the local shops are stumped, and I personally havent been able to find anything else that could cause this.
head was checked for warpage each time.
Block was checked each time for warpage.
Oil returns were checked for blockage.
exhaust temps were measured.
muffler replaced as a precaution.
Any other ideas?
Anyone else have to but heads with Kohler on an issue?
I am getting sick of mowing 3 acres with a push mower!Not to mention wood hauling.

 

[ropensaddle]

I have a Husqvarna garden tractor, and it is the workhorse around here. Powered by a Kohler 25hp Command engine. With 10 hours on the engine, it blows a head gasket on the right side. That was back in 04.
I have replaced this head gasket 5 times now, and nobody seems to be able to tell me what is causing it. I have replaced the muffler(tech rep said a plugged muffler could cause a high head pressure, sounded good at the time) checked exhaust temps from one cylinder to the other, both are within 20 degrees of each other.
Now of coarse this engine is long out of warranty. I have plenty of documents to show that this problem started right out of the box, but Kohler refused to do anything about it. This time when the gasket blew the head warped, costing another 150 bucks to replace.
Anyone have any ideas of what could cause this problem? All the local shops are stumped, and I personally havent been able to find anything else that could cause this.
head was checked for warpage each time.
Block was checked each time for warpage.
Oil returns were checked for blockage.
exhaust temps were measured.
muffler replaced as a precaution.
Any other ideas?
Anyone else have to but heads with Kohler on an issue?
I am getting sick of mowing 3 acres with a push mower!Not to mention wood hauling.

Wow that sounds like a defect I would be ticked at this point.

 

[Wood Scrounge]

that stinks, seems everything is junk now. I will be in the market for a new lawn\garden tractor in the next year and have no clue what is still good. My neighbor has a new John Deere that is complete junk, the big box stores really jacked things up.

 

[ropensaddle]

that stinks, seems everything is junk now. I will be in the market for a new lawn\garden tractor in the next year and have no clue what is still good. My neighbor has a new John Deere that is complete junk, the big box stores really jacked things up.

I will keep overhauling this one. It is kohler but with a cast iron block
and real gears.

 

[bore_pig]

Flawed rod or piston that's causing extra high compression maybe? Do you have any compression numbers from after a rebuild? Do the compression numbers from both cylinders match?

 

[danrclem]

Is there a lemon law for things like this or does that only pertain to automobiles? If there is would it be too late to get this to qualify for it?

What really stinks is that Kohler knows that it was bad and won't do anything about it. I probably wouldn't be worth going to court for though.

I have a 25hp Kohler on a garden tractor which is about four or five years old and is doing fine.

 

[avalancher]

Flawed rod or piston that's causing extra high compression maybe? Do you have any compression numbers from after a rebuild? Do the compression numbers from both cylinders match?

The compression from both cylinders are within 5 lbs of each other, or at least they were when the problem happened the second time.
I have done a little reading on the net, and it sounds like this is a fairly common problem with this engine. Kohler said that they did have a problem with faulty head bolts a few years before mine was built, but according to them the problem was resolved.
Yeah right, it was resolved alright. the head bolts have been replaced each and every time the head gasket was replaced, and still the problem continues.
I ventured the question last week if this problem cant be resolved, how about sending me new engine, i would swap them out and send the engine back to them at my cost.
Their reply was"well, that isnt really a reasonable request. You have used that engine for 200 hours now."
200 hours on a $2500 engine? At that price, I will have to just get a goat to mow the lawn, cant afford a tractor.:censored:

 

[cuttinscott]

Nothing New for a command 25

I have seen this OVER AND OVER and yes Kohler does not want to stand behind it. They will always blame the end user. The issues that engine has since conception are............ Weak valve trains (bent and broken push rods rockers and valve covers leaking) Poor mufflers that would break internally and cause blockage, Lifters that did not bleed down properly, oil puddling on top of pistons after use ~ smoke like hell on restarts, S.A.M. ~ spark advance module it probably your culprit it is throwing the timing off and causing overheating of your engine.

Good Luck you will need it......


Scott

 

[avalancher]

I have seen this OVER AND OVER and yes Kohler does not want to stand behind it. They will always blame the end user. The issues that engine has since conception are............ Weak valve trains (bent and broken push rods rockers and valve covers leaking) Poor mufflers that would break internally and cause blockage, Lifters that did not bleed down properly, oil puddling on top of pistons after use ~ smoke like hell on restarts, S.A.M. ~ spark advance module it probably your culprit it is throwing the timing off and causing overheating of your engine.

Good Luck you will need it......


Scott

If its the spark advance module, shouldnt it affect both cylinders?
And you are right about the smoke on start up, you would almost think the thing is on fire sometimes when it cranks up, smoke everywhere.
Another thing that really got me about this engine, constant backfire on shutdown. Kohler says to run the engine on 2/3 throttle on shut down. Owners manual neglected to mention this at all. I took the thing back to the dealer the first day because of the backfire and he couldnt figure a thing out. A phone call to Kohler solved that problem, but you would think that they would put that in the owners manual.

 

[bore_pig]

HMMMM.......Electronic spark advance. Good idea. I'm guessing the problem with this SAM could be that there is too much advance. Preignition issue.

 

[mga]

i know it's too late now, but you should have demanded a replacement engine back when it first happened.


but...all is not lost. you could write a letter to your state attorney general and explain the problem you had, in detail, and complain that Kohler has refused to make good on this problem. also include that you discovered that it is a common problem with these engines.

you'd be surprised what a letter could do. besides, what do you have to lose? the worse that could happen is they tell you they can't do anything about it, the best thing is they might look into it and go after Kohler.

worth a try.

 

[avalancher]

I couldnt find anything in my schematics about a timing control module, and gave the tech line a call at Kohler. Seems that timing is fixed,and only variable by an offset key on the flywheel. According to Kohler timing is fixed at 18 degrees.

 

[avalancher]

i know it's too late now, but you should have demanded a replacement engine back when it first happened.


but...all is not lost. you could write a letter to your state attorney general and explain the problem you had, in detail, and complain that Kohler has refused to make good on this problem. also include that you discovered that it is a common problem with these engines.

you'd be surprised what a letter could do. besides, what do you have to lose? the worse that could happen is they tell you they can't do anything about it, the best thing is they might look into it and go after Kohler.

worth a try.

According to the dealer and Kohler, the first time could have been a fluke. head wasnt torqued down enough during assembly,etc.
The second time the second shop blamed it on the first shop's faulty repair.we had moved from Alabama to Tennessee.
The third,fourth,fifth time it was out of warranty and Kohler just shrugged their shoulders. Mostly just said that they are happy to help with advise, but no repairs at their cost once warranty is over.
They are just basically doing what everyone else does. Keep passing the buck until the customer gets frustrated and goes away.
I have had several Kohler engines in my life and they always seemed bulletproof, but I gues Kohler is going the way that they all go eventually. Build the cheapest products that they can, assemble them in Mexico, and charge as much as they think they can get away with.

 

[Jkebxjunke]

sounds like there is a case for a class action lawsuit... if its a common problem

on replacing your mower.... ever think of a zero turn mower?
I had a mtd garden tractor with a 46" cut.. took me almost 10 hours to cut grass around all my buildings yards ect. I bought a toro Z255 62" cut zero turn mower... and now I can cut everything in 4 hours and since it is commercial grade... the spindles turn up faster and you can cut damp to even wet grass with no problem and has made the need for a push mower non-existent and with the use of a little Round-up string trimming is a thing of the past too. when i bought my toro it was $7200 a large garden tractor ( if you call them that) was around $4000 and would have to be replaced in 5 years... my dealer told me that with the use on the toro... it should last 20 years ( I have had it for about 6 now)
just a thought

 

[avalancher]

Zero turn? Nope, not for me. I need a tractor. This tractor spends as much time pulling stuff around the yard and the woods as it does mowing lawns. Zero turn isnt much use for pulling loads.

 

[Jkebxjunke]

I forgot to add I use my JD Gator 4x2 for small pulling or one of my tractors (Kubota L2850 with loader, L3430 M6800) for larger loads or the Bobcat S160 for other stuff.. the grapple is great for moving logs:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Black19]

I think you are working the tractor a little hard. If funds are there, I would step up to a 30 horse or so Kubota or the like diesel. They can mow, pull, split wood, plow snow, plow a garden, and you can put a loader on it. With proper maintence, it could last you a life time.

 

[Mike Van]

I don't think it's overworked - 200 hours? My JD has 1900 hours on an 18 hp Kawasaki, never had the engine apart.

 

[avalancher]

I think you are working the tractor a little hard. If funds are there, I would step up to a 30 horse or so Kubota or the like diesel. They can mow, pull, split wood, plow snow, plow a garden, and you can put a loader on it. With proper maintence, it could last you a life time.

Just out of curiosity, you can tell by this post that I am working my tractor to hard?I dont recall mentioning how much weight I hauled, etc.
If it makes you feel any better, the tractor comes equiped with a 1 7/8 ball mount, is designed to pull 1500lbs, and can be equiped with a bucket loader as well. This is not a riding mower, but designated as a GARDEN TRACTOR.

 

[Zackman1801]

the tractor should hold up but its not. its most likely a defect of some kind. is it possible that there is something wrong with its cooling system? mabey it gets too hot? really would be hard to diagnose a small part causing big problems without really looking it over. My question is if the dealers looked at it and said they cant figure out the problem why wont the company do anything about it? whats the point of offering a warrantee if they wont honor it?