rebuilding an old splitter - what size hoses do I need?

[unclemoustache]

I'm rebuilding an old (free) splitter, and have put on a 10 hp motor, a 22gpm pump (2 stage), and a cylinder that's about 32" long, 1 1/2" shaft.

What size hoses do I need? The ports on the pump are 1 1/4", but when I priced out hoses at that size, I was told that I didn't need such large hoses and could make do with smaller ones, which would be much cheaper. I know nothing about hydraulics.

Also, are there cheaper places to get hoses? I tried Napa (Yeah, I know- they were closest) but was also going to try a farm equipment store down the road. Are there stock sizes (with fittings) I can order online somewhere?

Thanks!
Josh

~~~~~~~~~~
If you think my chainsaw is big, you should see my moustache.

 

[wkpoor]

Inlet hose from tank to pump can be 1" or leave it 1 1/4" but it doesn't need to be a pressure hose. In fact you can use slip on fittings and worm clamps or parker push locs. All my returns are push locs on mine. The outlet can be 3/4" to the valve and of coarse a swagged pressure hose. If you go with JIC fittings it will simplify assembly over pipe thread.

 

[unclemoustache]

Thanks. Due to my financial situation, cost is of high concern for me - what is the cheapest route (without sacrificing quality)?

Josh

 

[DocDryden]

While we are on the subject of log splitter hoses I have notice that most of the splitters that I have seen have a spring type cover on the hoses to keep them from getting damaged do you guys think they are necessary , I have notice the small splitters like mine don’t have the covers.
Do you think I should add some?

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

My 2 cents!

While we are on the subject of log splitter hoses I have notice that most of the splitters that I have seen have a spring type cover on the hoses to keep them from getting damaged do you guys think they are necessary , I have notice the small splitters like mine don’t have the covers.
Do you think I should add some?

My thinking is that the larger splitters my be used by a fire wood company and their employees may use it like they stole it. Thus the added protection on the hoses.

If you're the only one running the splitter I don't think that it will be an issue.

Dan

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

What size of hoses were on there before

I'm rebuilding an old (free) splitter, and have put on a 10 hp motor, a 22gpm pump (2 stage), and a cylinder that's about 32" long, 1 1/2" shaft.

What size hoses do I need? The ports on the pump are 1 1/4", but when I priced out hoses at that size, I was told that I didn't need such large hoses and could make do with smaller ones, which would be much cheaper. I know nothing about hydraulics.

Also, are there cheaper places to get hoses? I tried Napa (Yeah, I know- they were closest) but was also going to try a farm equipment store down the road. Are there stock sizes (with fittings) I can order online somewhere?

Thanks!
Josh


~~~~~~~~~~
If you think my chainsaw is big, you should see my moustache.

Josh

Welcome to AS! We have a lot of fun on this thing (at least I do)

What size of hoses were on there before? I know some of the "fleet" stores can custom make hoses for you. I don't know the price difference....if it's cheaper...

Dan

Dan

 

[unclemoustache]

Thank you for welcoming me. I'm also a tree nut (as opposed to a nut tree) and love them growing, blooming, dying, falling, burning, building, carving, etc. Wood is great! I fit in well here.

Anyway, my splitter was built by a 3-handed nearsighted ogre with severe MS, but I'm sure it served him well for years until I was given it after it had sat in the weather for many years. Most of the hoses on it were 1", but since I changed out the pump and motor, it probably doesn't matter what was on there before.

Now it's being built by a left-handed nearsighted ogre with FH, and I hope it serves me well for many years if I can ever get the thing finished. (FH = Facial Hair).

Thanks,
Josh

 

[Labman]

I have worked at many very different jobs. Actually calculating pressure drop due to hose diameter is a task many engineers will try to avoid. It isn't that hard once you track down all the data you need. In my one job, the engineers refused to help me. I calculated it would take 1/5 as much pressure to pump the same volume of oil through 1 1/2'' pipes as 1''. I was able to replace some worn out high pressure, low volume pumps with low pressure, high volume pumps much better suited to the job. I suspect many hoses and pipes are actually sized by guess work. Small changes of diameter make huge changes of back pressure in a hose or pipe.

In another job, I built hydraulic hose assemblies. Most of the hoses I replaced had been allowed to rub against something and had a hole rubbed in them. Watch where your hoses run and put padding under where they rub, and you don't need the guards. Run it like you stole it and you will be at the hose store a lot.

The farm store may have on the shelf, stock hose assemblies you can make work. I would buy ones that matched the ports. If the pump and cylinder had 1/2'' pipe ports, buy 1/2'' hoses with 1/2 pipe fittings. Get a swivel on one end for assembly. If you have a choice, go with O-ring fittings. They leak less. And yes, low pressure on the return line. I made up hundreds of Parker Push Lok hoses for them. Slick.

 

[wkpoor]

Thanks. Due to my financial situation, cost is of high concern for me - what is the cheapest route (without sacrificing quality)?

Off the shelf hoses with pipe thread ends is your cheapest route. The splitter I built a couple of years ago (very different situation from yours now) has roughly 250.00 worth of fittings and hoses and the only thing hydraulic is the ram. It ads up quick. My pump has QD fittings on it and they are real expensive in 3/4 and 1 inch sizes.

 

[dingeryote]

While we are on the subject of log splitter hoses I have notice that most of the splitters that I have seen have a spring type cover on the hoses to keep them from getting damaged do you guys think they are necessary , I have notice the small splitters like mine don’t have the covers.
Do you think I should add some?

Doc,

It's a logical upgrade if you are bored and fussing about.

Old firehose wrapped and zip tied, works great if you can get it.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[boostnut]

TSC, Farm + Fleet, Rural King...... the list goes on and on. You probably have one of these "farm stores" in your neck of the woods. The premade hoses they sell are the cheapest way to go. I know of a couple of shops here in central IL that make custom hose assemblies for a reasonable price, where are you from in illinois?

 

[triptester]

The 1 1/4" suction hose from tank to pump can be very expensive if regular hydraulic hose is used but on one splitter I repaired I used a radiator hose with the coiled wire inside.
The hose from pump to control valve should be 3/4" min.. Return hose to tank should be 1" min.. Hoses from valve to cylinder should be 3/4".
At 22 gpm friction can double when reducing a single hose size, friction causes heat.

 

[WoodTick007]

Thank you for welcoming me. I'm also a tree nut (as opposed to a nut tree) and love them growing, blooming, dying, falling, burning, building, carving, etc. Wood is great! I fit in well here.

Anyway, my splitter was built by a 3-handed nearsighted ogre with severe MS, but I'm sure it served him well for years until I was given it after it had sat in the weather for many years. Most of the hoses on it were 1", but since I changed out the pump and motor, it probably doesn't matter what was on there before.

Now it's being built by a left-handed nearsighted ogre with FH, and I hope it serves me well for many years if I can ever get the thing finished. (FH = Facial Hair).

Thanks,
Josh

What happened to your super splitter? Do you still have it and you're just adding a hydraulic or did you in it part ways? I've always had a hydraulic splitter once I retired my axe. The would I get is bigger and can fit on a super splitter people say they don't have that problem but I think if I put my logs on that table but it would crush the whole machine.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

For ideal flow at 22gpm you need:

suction needs 1.5" (1.25" is good to 16gpm)
pressure needs .60" (so at least 5/8" hose)
return needs .90" (so at least 7/8" hose, 1" better)

Now I should also mention that flow will be higher on the blind end of the cylinder (aka, return stroke) If you have a 2" rod on a 4" piston cylinder, the return flow will be around 30gpm, so you'd need a 1" line.

Now ideal meaning best reasonable size. You can go smaller and it'll certainly work, just will be slower and run hotter.

Hose protector is pretty cheap, buck or so a foot. It's called "spiral guard".

JIC fittings or can use NPT fittings. NPT fittings seal similar to JIC. You'll likely need NPT for the valve. Cylinder and pump will probably be NPT or "SAE" which is a straight thread that has a nut that tightens an o ring to seal. I've heard them called O ring straight thread fitting as well.

Suction hose isn't that expensive. I just bought 1.5" hose, it was about $7/ft. Shouldn't need more than a few feet on a splitter. Actually if you have over 5 feet of suction, would need to upsize the #s I gave you even.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I suspect many hoses and pipes are actually sized by guess work. Small changes of diameter make huge changes of back pressure in a hose or pipe.

Very true.

I just spent about $1000 to redo much of the hoses on my processor. I also added a pilot operated flow valve (aka dump valve) which is should have had from the get go. They were trying to flow ~70gpm through the splitter valve, which I think is only a 25 or 30gpm valve. It "worked". Return was seeing 2500psi backpressure (what the relief is set to) and lugging the engine hard.

The 2 feeding the saw motor were coming apart because they were being twisted. I replaced the hoses and put a set of swivels to fix that (at $50 each).

Otherwise, I upsized many of the hoses, as they were WAY too small. Pretty much they used 1/2" hose for everything.
For example they had 30 and 70gpm flowing through 1/2 hoses! (1/2" hose rated for about 15gpm!) A single 1.25" suction line for about 45 gpm of pumps (triplex pump). I put two 1.5" lines, the largest practical size I could go with (still a bit too small).

Just putting the CORRECT sized hoses (or at least at near correct as possible) reduced average operating temp 40* (that's HUGE) and increased the speed of everything quite a bit. Splitter for example is about a 4 second cycle, where it was about 7.5 seconds before. Oh, and I get about 5hrs more run time on a 15 gallon tank of diesel,


Actually bugs me considering I paid alot of money for the machine. Sizing the hydraulic hoses on a fairly simple setup like a processor isn't rocket surgery, many charts in books or even online to go off of. My folks visited this summer and my Dad, who has almost 35 years as a Millwright, basically went "uh... nope, too small, uh wtf? , nope, too small" haha

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Go to a specialist for hydraulic hoses and fittings. I had to search really hard to find the tank to pump hose, turned away everywhere including hydraulic equipment rebuilders. It was 2 bucks a foot and is similar to the hoses I've seen on commercial splitters. What size that hose is depends on what the OD of your hose barbs on your pump and tank. Those are pretty spendy. So are the whoop azz bolt clamps that hold the hose on them

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Go to a specialist for hydraulic hoses and fittings. I had to search really hard to find the tank to pump hose, turned away everywhere including hydraulic equipment rebuilders. It was 2 bucks a foot and is similar to the hoses I've seen on commercial splitters. What size that hose is depends on what the OD of your hose barbs on your pump and tank. Those are pretty spendy. So are the whoop azz bolt clamps that hold the hose on them

That's really cheap for suction hose. Heck that's really cheap for any hydraulic hose!

It's a common hose though, any decent hydraulic hose supplier will carry it. Might be called 100R4 hose at some places, though they should know it's suction hose.

I've order a bunch from Discount Hydraulic Hoses. They are out of PA, but they shipped to me in flat rate boxes. They were easily 50% of the cost on the hose assemblies compared to local and quite a bit cheaper on fittings too.

Example, a 3ft 3/4" hose cost me $100 locally. DHH would have been about $55 with shipping. We needed it right there and then though, was a steering hose for the skidder.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Its just return hose, but a little less than 3ft of hose and clamps was $20. Eaton Puma petroleum transfer hose.

I had a 1/2" NPT hose (endloader transmission cooler line) made up at the local implement dealer and it was about a foot long (but just enough out of spec for a prefab.) was around $40.

 

[NSMaple1]

What happened to your super splitter? Do you still have it and you're just adding a hydraulic or did you in it part ways? I've always had a hydraulic splitter once I retired my axe. The would I get is bigger and can fit on a super splitter people say they don't have that problem but I think if I put my logs on that table but it would crush the whole machine.

Eight years later...

 

[unclemoustache]

Good golly! Our favorite Alaskan opened up an 8 year old thread!
I never did get the splitter finished. I got it running, but it had issues and somebody offered me money for it.

Still use the Supersplit, of course. Will never do hydraulic again.