rebuilt 090 idles, but wont scream

[mackie]

hi fellers,

since spring is just around the corner, i need to get my 090 going again.
it recieved a new cylinder and piston kit and carb kit last fall. when i got it back, it ran only long enough for the carb and muffler to vibrate off. the carb kit they put in wasnt the same as the parts that were in it originally, and it was not properly installed, i wont even get into that. i ended up putting the original carb parts back in, as well as going thru it w/ loctite.

now it idles but wont rev. yesterday i got it to scream for about a half second when the high speed jet was screwed all the way in, but i couldnt make it happen again.

i have adjusted the lever that opens the needle and seat valve. it was higher, only 1/32 below the face of the carb body, but i lowered it so now it is almost flat, about 3/32 lower than the face of the carb body.(see picture).

do you guys see anything obviously wrong here? what carb is this anyway, is it the best carb for the 090, can i get a rebuild kit for it, or should i get a different carb? the stamp on top of the carb says hL112c, and it is a tillotson. my 090 manual has 2 differrent carbs shown, but neither is a hl112c.

 

[Lakeside53]

If it rev'ed only when you screwed in the H jet, that pretty much indicates that you have an severely over rich condition. The Tillotsen carb is pretty basic and reasonably bullet proof. Make sure you have all the diaphragms in the right order... One way to get it really over-rich on H is to have the metering diaphragm pushing down too much on the needle arm. If you have the gasket/diaphragm order reversed, it will do that.

I need to go look at an old carb, but it's likely that the metering arm is to be level with the bottom of the carb body, not the top.

 

[mackie]

is it possible that the high speed needle seat got damaged-the needles were backwards when i got the saw back from the shop, long needle in the high speed, short needle in the low speed. i agree it appears to be a severly overrich condition. picture #007 shows the order of assembly of the carb, start w/ the carb, then take the piece(diaphram) at 12:00 and put it on top of the carb, then continue clockwise putting the parts on top of the carb.

 

[Big Woody]

So tell us, who did the work on your 090?

 

[mackie]

the work was done by SWAG in bayfield colorado, the local stihl dealer. i wouldnt recommend them for chainsaw work. at least they gave me a break on the labor. even though they messed it up and should fix it, i wont let them touch my saw again, i'll fix it myself. i should've done the rebuild myself.

 

[havvey]

090

i cant help you with it but look on ebay a guy called saw king he even has a cd on rebuilding them and professes he works on alot of them. there are others also. Sounds like shoddy workmanship I would take them to do for that even make them pay damages:jawdrop:

 

[Big feller]

For carb info check out:
http://www.tillotson-fuelsystems.com/manuals.html

You should be able to download a carb manual.

I had a similar fault on my 056 when I rebuilt it. Rebuilt the carb and now runs fine. I had a pretty good look at the old bits but still don't know what caused the problem. I would suggest new diaphragms and gaskets and go from there.

Good luck.

Big feller.

 

[sugarbush]

hi fellers,

since spring is just around the corner, i need to get my 090 going again.
it recieved a new cylinder and piston kit and carb kit last fall. when i got it back, it ran only long enough for the carb and muffler to vibrate off. the carb kit they put in wasnt the same as the parts that were in it originally, and it was not properly installed, i wont even get into that. i ended up putting the original carb parts back in, as well as going thru it w/ loctite.

now it idles but wont rev. yesterday i got it to scream for about a half second when the high speed jet was screwed all the way in, but i couldnt make it happen again.

i have adjusted the lever that opens the needle and seat valve. it was higher, only 1/32 below the face of the carb body, but i lowered it so now it is almost flat, about 3/32 lower than the face of the carb body.(see picture).

do you guys see anything obviously wrong here? what carb is this anyway, is it the best carb for the 090, can i get a rebuild kit for it, or should i get a different carb? the stamp on top of the carb says hL112c, and it is a tillotson. my 090 manual has 2 differrent carbs shown, but neither is a hl112c.

have you had the main nozzle check valve out ? there's a ball in there that may be stuck. if that's not working it'll idle but won't power up. about every thing else has been mentioned.

 

[mackie]

wheres the main nozzle check valve???

 

[dugide]

wheres the main nozzle check valve???

I had an older mac saw that had a HL carb and there was a screw head you turned out which i think was in the tube where the gas runs through and there's a ball in there. but that mite be different then a stihl.

 

[mackie]

i found the tillotson manual online, thanks for the tip, big feller.

according to the diagram in the manual, my carb appears to be missing a diaphram gasket.

i guess i will look for a carb kit, any ideas or recommendations where to get one?

 

[dugide]

i found the tillotson manual online, thanks for the tip, big feller.

according to the diagram in the manual, my carb appears to be missing a diaphram gasket.

i guess i will look for a carb kit, any ideas or recommendations where to get one?

theres one on e-bay, new listing about 3rd or 4th page.

 

[sugarbush]

wheres the main nozzle check valve???

mackie, if you havn't take'n your needle and seat out, do so and there may or may not be a ball, but i think there's a concaved area in the bottem that crud can accumulate. the seat should come out with a screw driver or thin wall socket. never worked on a 090 carb but i think the rebuild kit is the same for all hl carbs. i would lean towards that passage being blocked rather then the shop putting the kit in wrong. that carb was used on a lot of the older big slow rpm saws. like someone else posted the kit with or without needle and seat is on e-bay or any shop can order it. go for the needle and seat kit. good luck with that big brute. if you get it solved post what the problem was.

 

[domdi_181]

my suggestion is to stop messin around with this old carb and take your saw to a dealer and get a new carb, or clean the old one out and adjust the high and low jets properly. The best way I find to adjust the high and low speed jets is to turn them both out 3 or 4 turns, start the engine even if you gotta hold the throttle open and then turn the adjusting jets in until the engine runs smooth,The engine will probably be revin out so you then turn in the low speed jet, once the engin slows down the engine will probably sound like it's flooding so you then turn in the high speed jet and keep doing this to both jets a little at a time about a 1/4 turn at first and then down to 1/8 turn until the engine runs smooth, one jet might have to be turned in further than the other but that's not always the case. don't forget to adjust the idle screw if need be. hopefully that will help you out.

hi fellers,

since spring is just around the corner, i need to get my 090 going again.
it recieved a new cylinder and piston kit and carb kit last fall. when i got it back, it ran only long enough for the carb and muffler to vibrate off. the carb kit they put in wasnt the same as the parts that were in it originally, and it was not properly installed, i wont even get into that. i ended up putting the original carb parts back in, as well as going thru it w/ loctite.

now it idles but wont rev. yesterday i got it to scream for about a half second when the high speed jet was screwed all the way in, but i couldnt make it happen again.

i have adjusted the lever that opens the needle and seat valve. it was higher, only 1/32 below the face of the carb body, but i lowered it so now it is almost flat, about 3/32 lower than the face of the carb body.(see picture).

do you guys see anything obviously wrong here? what carb is this anyway, is it the best carb for the 090, can i get a rebuild kit for it, or should i get a different carb? the stamp on top of the carb says hL112c, and it is a tillotson. my 090 manual has 2 differrent carbs shown, but neither is a hl112c.

 

[mackie]

domdi; ive already done all that, numerous times. ive had the carb apart and back togethor many times already, with the new parts from the carb kit, and with the original parts. the needle and seat that came with the kit are different than the original. the needle and seat are not plugged, i checked that already. the problem with going to the dealer is that they are the ones that got me into this mess. when they see that old saw they dont even want to work on it, they try to talk me into buying a new saw. anybody that thinks an 090 is not worth rebuilding is too ignorant to work on my saw. thanks for the input anyway. i'm going to try to add a gasket above the main diaphram which appears to be missing in the picture.

 

[sugarbush]

domdi; ive already done all that, numerous times. ive had the carb apart and back togethor many times already, with the new parts from the carb kit, and with the original parts. the needle and seat that came with the kit are different than the original. the needle and seat are not plugged, i checked that already. the problem with going to the dealer is that they are the ones that got me into this mess. when they see that old saw they dont even want to work on it, they try to talk me into buying a new saw. anybody that thinks an 090 is not worth rebuilding is too ignorant to work on my saw. thanks for the input anyway. i'm going to try to add a gasket above the main diaphram which appears to be missing in the picture.

mackie, it's worth fixing after putting a cylinder and piston in it. I think that carb has to work if the right kit is put in in the right order. did you look on e-bay under chainsaws for sale? the kits are listed. if i thought one of the used carbs i have would work i'd send it, but linkage may be differant.

 

[sugarbush]

domdi; ive already done all that, numerous times. ive had the carb apart and back togethor many times already, with the new parts from the carb kit, and with the original parts. the needle and seat that came with the kit are different than the original. the needle and seat are not plugged, i checked that already. the problem with going to the dealer is that they are the ones that got me into this mess. when they see that old saw they dont even want to work on it, they try to talk me into buying a new saw. anybody that thinks an 090 is not worth rebuilding is too ignorant to work on my saw. thanks for the input anyway. i'm going to try to add a gasket above the main diaphram which appears to be missing in the picture.

mackie, I just looked in a service book and theres two other tillotson carbs hc and hj the carbs look like a hl but the kit is not the same. it's very interesting, I'd like to know when you figure out whats wrong.

 

[Mr.]

my suggestion is to stop messin around with this old carb and take your saw to a dealer and get a new carb, or clean the old one out and adjust the high and low jets properly. The best way I find to adjust the high and low speed jets is to turn them both out 3 or 4 turns, start the engine even if you gotta hold the throttle open and then turn the adjusting jets in until the engine runs smooth,The engine will probably be revin out so you then turn in the low speed jet, once the engin slows down the engine will probably sound like it's flooding so you then turn in the high speed jet and keep doing this to both jets a little at a time about a 1/4 turn at first and then down to 1/8 turn until the engine runs smooth, one jet might have to be turned in further than the other but that's not always the case. don't forget to adjust the idle screw if need be. hopefully that will help you out.

I respectfully disagree with your carb tuning method.

Fred

 

[mackie]

i think the carb kit they put in was not the right one. now ive swapped parts around so much i dont even remember the way it was originally, thats why i post ed the pics originally on this thread. the saw ran good last fall before they messed with it. i guess since it (carb) wasnt really broke, i shouldnt have tried to fix it. im not sure which kit on ebay i should get, theres not one specifically listed for hl112c. if anybody wants to sell me a used carb, let me know, i'd like to have some spare parts anyway.

 

[sugarbush]

i think the carb kit they put in was not the right one. now ive swapped parts around so much i dont even remember the way it was originally, thats why i post ed the pics originally on this thread. the saw ran good last fall before they messed with it. i guess since it (carb) wasnt really broke, i shouldnt have tried to fix it. im not sure which kit on ebay i should get, theres not one specifically listed for hl112c. if anybody wants to sell me a used carb, let me know, i'd like to have some spare parts anyway.

mackie, in a book i order from it shows two different kits for that hl carb, one is just for stihl. oem # is DG3hl it is listed for a 070, so try calling a local stihl dealer to see if thats also the kit for an 090. theres one more part to the 070 kit. the one mentioned on e-bay may not be the wrong one. but then again you may not know for sure if thats the right carb on that saw. but that saw does call for a hl or hs carb. at least in my book. the shop that fixed it probably didn't know there was two differant kits for an hl carb. i didn't until i looked in an order book. it looks like that that kit is made just for stihl.