Recently unemploy...er...self employed! (long)

[Kaptain_K]

Hi folks,
This is my first post although I've been lurking around for months and really enjoy the site. Long history here, but the short of it is that I have been living my life in an office cubicle for 15 years now and I'm done. I took the plunge and have decided to pursue my corporate escape fantasy. My wife thinks I've gone over the edge, lost my marbles, etc. (Just wait till we tell her parents!). There are multitudes of reasons for this, but this just seemed like the year to go out on my own if I was ever going to do it.
I've been kicking around several ideas for a one-man biz for a few years now and I always come back to homeowner service type ideas. I'd like some input on my latest thoughts if you guys wouldn't mind giving me some advice. I have a buddy who has done tree work for several companies the last several years. This year he went on his own and is basically targeting big dead trees with moderate difficulty (i.e. hanging over the house, etc.). He is actually awesome at selling the jobs (if you answer the door when he knocks, he WILL be taking down your tree....he's that good), and also very good at taking down these trees. He has a bucket truck, and is a good climber, but he does not have a chipper or chip truck. I am thinking a good niche for me might be to buy the chipper and truck and stump grinder and let him sub out the cleanups to me. Thinking beyond that, I would do small trees, hedges, etc. myself and would have all equipment to complete those jobs myself. What do you think the market might be like in contacting all the tree companies in the area and offering my chip n stump services? Also, could I keep the equipment busy by advertising to neighborhoods that I offer either cleanups, or just the chipping/hauling services so they can save all the time of bundling up the debris in 4' sections and tying with twine or bagging it in city lawn bags, etc? I was thinking that might work. Homeowners associations might need my services on 'cleanup' days where the common areas in the development are maintained (that's what my HOA does....we rent a chipper twice a year and we all go trim trees on the common grounds around the lake, etc.) I am hoping I can keep fairly busy as I'd be looking at $10-$20k to get started on the cheap. Another thought once i have the chip dump is to offer a similar service for fall leaf cleanup. Sell fall cleanups, but for those who don't want to pay for it, they can simply pile their leaves up curbside and call me and I'll use a big vaccum attachment to the chip dump and just vacuum all the leaves up. The biggest time eater in leaves is the dang bagging...
Ok, so what do you guys think? I'd be wanting to learn as I go about proper tree care and also climbing, etc., but for now, I see this as a way to jump right in without a lot of professional tree experience. What do you think the potential for success might be, that is the big question here.
P.S. I am not a scrub, I have insurance and will not be out there lowballing, quite the contrary actually. I want top dollar for my services. I want my equipment to look nice, me look nice, etc. It's just that I have no other option than to start very small.
Thanks!

Kaptain_K

 

[chipper]

sounds good

I think that your head is in the right place on going out on your own. The office is for a different breed of people. I think that helping your buddy out is a great idea, but as far as going to other tree companies, not so good. They might look at you as a threat rather than a good service. Picking up city debris you will have to take up with the city dept.. Maybe place a small ad in the local paper advertising property debris cleanup or something. I do a lot of different work for locals and they always appreciate someone around with a stump grinder and chipper that isn't as expensive as the other major tree companies in the local area. good luck and don't go into debt!!

 

[Ax-man]

When you deal directly with homeowners be prepared to chip a lot of what I would call dirty brush or just plain crap like small twiggy prunings, cut off rose bushes, ornamental grass stuff , even small root balls from dug out shrubs. Then they let this stuff sits around in a back yard for a year or two to let it get all nice and dried out, real prime chipping material

If our city didn't offer the service of chipping tree limbs and relied on private contractors to bid on it, I would not bid for this service after seeing what people put out on the curb for our city guys to chip. The wear and tear on the city chipper shows it to.

Larry

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Quad cities has sufficient populations and income, so I don't think it would be too hard to do.

It's allways a struggle to start out and find your niche.

Many companies start out small. You would have the benefit of being able to sub him in on bigger work, or farm it out to him. Sort of co-operative work.

If you can burn or sell firewood, I would suggest a smaller chipper and haul the wood for now until your workload could justify a 200k big chipper. Taht and a 1 ton dump box will let you do what you are thinking of.

 

[Kaptain_K]

Yeah, there might be some firewood, but probably not a lot. My buddy has a winch on a custom made frame on his 18' trailer. He uses that to load up 18' sections of the big stuff. Really saves wear and tear and cutting time on the saws. He can drop most anything and haul it away in a day, and hopefully he'd leave the debris cleanup and chipping to me.
I can't see spending less than $10-$20K just to get started with old junky equipment, so the debt factor will be there just a little bit. It will likely be fully depreciated equipment tho, so if it doesn't work and I have to sell it, I could probably get my $$ back out of it.

Another big question is figuring out where to dump my debris. Give it away whenever I can, and I'd like to find a tiny corner in some farmers field to park my equipment and dump my chips and maybe keep firewood.

thanks for the responses....keep 'em comin!
~Kap't

 

[chipper]

Nurseries have been my favourite places to dump chips. They are always looking for chips and mulch crap to keep theri root balls moist so they can be temporarily planted. If not that, then try placing an ad. You wouldn't believe how many people want chips. They make woodsy trails, walkways, or just save em up for compost. Keep a keen eye.

 

[chipper]

By the way; know where Bedendorf is? I have a good friend from there who now lives in OH. Just a thought!

 

[Kaptain_K]

Yeah, Bettendorf is one of the Quad Cities that JPS mentioned above. I'm in Des Moines, which is 3 hours west of the quad cities (middle of the state). 1/2 million people or so in the area.

That's a great idea about the nurseries wanting chips. I bet they'd take 'em.
Thanks!

P.S. Now I'll need a place to park my chip dump as I will be running my office from home. Any good ideas there? I really want to sweet talk a nearby landscape company into renting me a small hunk of dirt off to the side to park my equipment and dump my debris. I have a feeling nobody is gonna want to do that for me...but I will buy any of my plant or hardscape mat'ls from them in my landscaping endeavors if they would be willing to help me get a start.

thanks!

 

[alanarbor]

I would check into a good stump grinder before the chipper& chip truck. Dedicated stump guys can do well, as not every tree service has a stumper, and they would like the idea of someone who does stumps only......Not trees. You could get a lot of business subbing like that.

 

[DDM]

I'd have to say Most tree services have there own chipper.I'd have to say the calls ive had about chipping debri that person was expecting a very Cheap price for this service.Good Grief what a mess the Piles were! They think they can help out by cutting everything 4' Long. The stump grinder is a good Idea but unless your buddy has enough to keep you busy I'd pass on the chipper right now.How about Offering bobcat work? We have had a great deal of success With grading ect.

 

[hobby climber]

I wish you well in your new line but remember, if the machine isn't running ...its costing you money! That said, to be on the safe side, have you ever considered leasing the equipment for a couple of month first??? This will do a couple of things. 1- give you write-offs, 2- give you an idea as to which machine you need,3- give you experience with that equipment, 4- give you a taste as to what your getting yourself into! All machines are NOT created equal regarding performance and safety so maybe look at old threads here and or post a new one and ask questions . Keeping your family in mind, think about life insurance or other ways to protect you & yours. Incorporating is another thing to consider that way if something happens, the company takes the hit and not your family. Research more and you'll be fine. Good luck to ya and keep the questions coming. HC

 

[Kaptain_K]

Great advice folks, thanks. I had originally thought i might get the chipper AND a stumper. The rental idea is a good one. Good points about the junk i'm sure to be sending through my chipper by doing somebody else's pile! Same scary thoughts about offering a leaf pickup service. one nice big rock could really do some damage. Or even the neighbors cat...who knows what could be in the piles. Dead bodies even, just like in the movie 'Fargo'! (I don't think they'd hurt a good sized chipper tho!)
Thanks for the advice folks.
Kapt

 

[dhuffnmu]

Hey Kaptin K,

I would definatly skip the chipper and invest in a good stump grinder. I have a buddy who does only stumps and he makes really good money at it. He does all the stumps for small tree companys and gets tons of regular residental customers. He is always busy busy busy with it. The only problem I can see with you buying a chipper a chip truck and a stumper is $$$$$$$. Most people think the can go out and get all of that stuff for 20,000. You can but you get what you pay for. A good used stump grinder is that alone. A decent truck that can pull a nice sized chipper is 12-20000 or more alone. And a nice chipper is 10-25000. Then you got to think of insurance costs on all of that upkeep. If you buy older equipment you will probably be sticking alot of money into it in the near future. A quick way to see your profits deminished in a hurry. I don't want to sound like I am not saying go for it. But I would concentrate on the stump area first since you can pull that with a regular truck. I am just warning you to really look at the stuff you buy if you can get all that equipment you want to buy for 20,000 like you said chances are none of the pieces of equipment are that good.

 

[Kaptain_K]

Not a bad idea. I was really thinking of a smaller stumper like a Husqvarna. I'd gladly wrestle the thing for the first season, gotta get those guns built back up and get rid of my midsection. I have problems envisioning keeping that thing running all day though. What is a reasonable range of charges for stump grinding, both for the homeowner and as a sub to a tree co.?
~Kap't

 

[Ekka]

From the research I've done on Des Moines it looks good, almost 500,000 people, 180,000 households, ave income per household is $47,000 only 5.5% unemployment. Houses only cost ave $102,000 so it's a little boom town. Great lifestyle I expect.

The population is relatively stable and most people were born there. It's not full of tourists, retirees and mexicans (that's what we call southeners moving into our city). The negative of this is local loyalty, like a country town customers will stick to the same contractor till death!

Weather wise I would say there would be a market for firewood, too cold a place for me... June, July and August would be about the only months I'd like!
But you don't get a lot of rain so that wont hinder your business much. Don't know about that snow though, don't get that stuff here.

When I started out I bought a lawn mowing run so I would get regular income. It also gives you the opportunity to pick up tree & garden work. I think you need some sort of regular stable income when you start out ... a client base, even if it is only a few days a week. Then when I was busier and more established I sold the lawn run.

Online searches showed a lot of tree businesses, expect fierce competition if you go in full hog, remember the loyal country town syndrome.

Too often I see people get new gear and think they'll get the work for it ... advertising etc eats away at the profit and the cycle begins, the cycle of hopefully tomorrows jobs pay yesterdays bills. I'm a firm believer in getting the problem first then solving it.

In other words, get the work first. Then use your resources to solve it, why not get another tree co to chip your jobs whilst you grind stumps? Think outside the box, I still use skip bins a lot to get rid of heavy log ... it's fast and cheaper than dumping. But there's not much of a firewood market here. Heck I was doing the bulk of my work with a trailer for years. You can hire equipment too, including chippers, stump grinders and trucks.

With regard to the stump grinder, suss out what your competitors have. And power is everything ... old RG20 beats a 13hp new Husky. Maybe a pencil sharpener to get the stumps no-one else's machine can get too.

There is no genius in owning or buying equipment, getting the work is what makes or breaks you. Who can make a better burger than McDonalds? Probably everyone but who can build a better business? Not many.

A mate of mine rushed out and bought a little tip truck to do tree work, most of the time he contracted to me for a daily rate as he didn't get any work. I spent my money on advertising and marketing.

I wish you well, have fun.

 

[alanarbor]

My suggestion, don't buy a 13 hp stumper. You want something that can handle most of your jobs. It's a larger outlay, but a reasonably high HP machine, that can fit through a standard gate (the RG 50 comes to mind), will be able to handle even large stumps fairly well. If you've got a monster stump, or a stump that it'll take a micro machione to get to then rent what you need, and charge accordingly. An RG 50 (or equivalent) will handle 90% of your jobs reasonably well.

 

[Ax-man]

From the research I've done on Des Moines it looks good, almost 500,000 people, 180,000 households, ave income per household is $47,000 only 5.5% unemployment. Houses only cost ave $102,000 so it's a little boom town. Great lifestyle I expect.
_________________________________________________________________

Ekka,

You should go to Des Moines, it is located smack dab in the middle of the Great American Nowhere, the corn belt. Kinda like your Outback only it has water and is green. It is a an OK city though, it has been awhile since I have been there, has it changed Kaptain K??

Larry

 

[Ekka]

I hope it's got more trees for him to cut than our outback!

 

[Kaptain_K]

Well ya know, I grew up here, so it's comfortable to me. Spent the better part of my adolescence waiting to grow up so I could move someplace 'cool'.
Spent the better part of my 10 year college career traveling around the country (Yeah, I was following the Grateful Dead mostly, great excuse to travel!). At some point I realized what I knew and had was all right here, and it's still a great place to raise kids, so we stayed. Plenty of trees.
I have inlaws in Chicago so I drive right past Morris all the time. I actually thought THAT was the smack dab middle of nowhere!


Thanks for all the great advice. All very thought provoking, i'll consider all of it. I'll be out the office door in either one or two more weeks and I'm getting down to crunch time on my decision making. I found a nice gravely chipper mounted to a dump box, all sitting on a HD dual axle trailer w/electric brakes. That would be an excellent fit for me. Saves me from buying a separate chip truck. Plus, I already have 2 trucks that could pull it, as well as plow snow in the winter with one of them. Also, in the fall I could pull the chipper off, mount a leaf loader vacuum, and do leaf cleanups, a BIG deal around here in the fall as the city charges by the paper bag to pick them up....all that bagging encourages hiring guys like me....just get em to the curb folks.
sorry so long....gotta go finish waxing up my boat for a launch in 2 weeks, then I gotta put my snow plow back on cuz we're gonna get an inch or two of snow tonight in a surprise late season bonus!
Kaptain K

 

[dhuffnmu]

Hey Kaptaink K,

Now that ideal of the chipper mounted onto a dump box would be a great fit for you especially if you already got a truck to pull it. I would definatly go that route right now. that should get you by for alot of the work you do without having the commitment of a large chip truck and chipper and all the expenses to go along with them. Now that is good thinking.