remounting cylinder to crankcase ... what to do?

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Molecule

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my replacement piston should arrive tomorrow so I am going to try my first saw build (an abused eBay 6800 ). But I've never done this before, so I thought I'd ask for some clearance on some small-? (ha) points, if I might ...

I was going to wash out the old black oil and fuel which has accumulated in the crankcase well from the prior owner (which I've done a pretty good job of protecting -- I think). I was going to slosh around a few ounces of keroscene and oil, mixed 50-50

then liberally douse the big end and the two bearings with MX2T

then oil up the little end roller cage and mount the piston -- using bent needle nose plyers, or a screwdriver, and a prayer, to push in the spring clips, keeping the opening in the clip at about 1/4" from the little indent for subsequent extrication if necessary (I guess that's how you get it out. lol)

then lay the new cylinder gasket on the casing (do I leave it dry or do I put a little oil on it, or gasket seal, or ... ?)

then with the piston laying on its side and facing forward, oil up the rings, the piston and the cylinder, and then carefully pinch each ring into the cylinder (the 2mm +/- champfer at the bottom of the cylinder is almost enough to just slide the rings on ) or I can use an adjustable stainless steel ring clamp if that's a critical operation,

then center the cylinder into its "spot" and torque down the cylinder bolts cold (do I use loctite 123, 456, ?).

for torque on the cylinder bolts, in Nm, I'm having trouble reading the Dolmar service manual.

The Dolmar spec calls for "11,5 + 1,0**" Does anyone know what the "plus 1.0 star-star" means?

For comparison, the flywheel spec is "30,0 - 2.5" (minus 2.5 with no stars) and the clutch hub is "55,0 ± 2,5" (plus or minus 2.5 no stars). Might the +1,0** mean that you set the cylinder bolts at 11.5 Nm and then run the saw and then retorque them up to 12.5 Nm. I can't find any reference in their manual as to interpreting the "plus-star-star" torque spec on the last page. Also, for the flywheel, does anyone know what "30 Nm - 2.5" would mean? Do I set the flywheel down on the cone at 30 Nm, then back off the nut, then reset the nut to 27.5?
 
From what I've seen around here, * stands for ° (hahaha).

Make sure the snap ring opening is either up or down (you wouldn't want acceleration forces to make it behave badly).

Leaving the gasket dry sounds about the rightest to me.

Be very careful to not twist the cylinder on the piston so much that you lose a ring end in a port.
 
Ring compressor

A slick little trick I found for piston ring compression is to use a extra large plastic zip tie around the rings, the kind the HVAC installers put around flex duct to hard metal fittings. Wont scratch anything and when you get the piston in the cylinder far enough (the zip tie just keeps slid'in down the piston skirt) you just cut the tie with a pair of dykes and presto you done.
 
If you want to squeeze another nut into the sack while you have it apart, can the cylinder gasket and use loctite 518 gasket eliminator instead.

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Grande Dog
Master Mechanic
Discount Arborist Equipment and Tree Care Supplies
 
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I'd always recommend using a base gasket. If you want more compression, get 10 thousanths milled off the bottom of the cylinder. GrandDog, how much experience do you have with the loctite gasket eliminator?
 
Walkers saw shop has been doing it for years. I have never heard anyone say they ever had a problem with them leaking.
Not that I think it's the rite thing to do but they do it with out problems.
 
The Dolmar spec calls for "11,5 + 1,0**" Does anyone know what the "plus 1.0 star-star" means?

This sounds a lot like a modern 'tourque plus angle' type specification, which is becoming the modern standard for tourquing critical fasteners when it is impractical to measure actual bolt stretch. The '1,0' does not seem like enough degrees, though. Maybe it's not in degrees. Maybe that's radians? Sounds a little wacky. Maybe they just mean to be sure to torque to at least 11,5 newton-meters, with 12,5 newton-meters OK. In other words, slight over torque is acceptable, while slight under torque is not. This is also common with critical fasteners, especially those under a cyclic load.

Jimbo
 
Can you buy this Loctite 518 about anywhere?? I have tried to skip gaskets on a few saws I have done and nothing really works, just end up with air leaks even when the sealant said it resists gas.

Larry
 
when you use the sealant, how much do you lay down, and what happens if you lay down too much and some drips into the lower end when you seat the cylinder? also, what happens when you pull the cylinder the next time ... does it come off in one piece or does it require scraping the seal area a little here and there?

I wish I could find out more about the torque specs ... I'm right at that point now ... (I will say this, for the 6800 (120) don't forget to put the little oil tank vent back in the tank-handle before putting mounting the engine and carb and etc. !!! arghhh )
 
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squish band clearance 1.17 mm ; compression 158 psi

Without torquing things down yet, the prelim squish band clearance is 0.046" = 1.17 mm.

The thickness of the gasket I used is 0.018 = 0.46 mm.

Thus, with the gasket removed the squish band would be down to 0.71 mm. (A. Graham Bell in his book Two-Stroke Performance Tuning, recommends a squish band in the 0.6 to 0.8 mm range, or even 0.5 - 0.7 mm for smaller engines.) So, after burnin and retorqueing, I migth consider removing the gasket just for fun.

Compression is 158 psi before seating, but with plenty of oil. For a cylinder wall which has some deep full length grooves along both sides of the exhaust port, and for an out of round cylinder which I sanded down with my thumb and some 120 emery cloth, to get the aluminum cake off, it's starting to feel like a regular saw ...

Does anyone know how 158 psi translates to compression ratio? Is that high or low?
 
Compression psi has NO direct relationship to compression ratio. Compression psi is an indication of an engines ability to seal the combustion chamber and nothing else.
 
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