Replacing the old Farm Boss.....

[manual]

The argument holds up just fine, what doesn't add up is your idea that it doesn't. If you had a saw that lasted 35 years why would you switch brands, seems its a slam dunk decision.

Hypothetically speaking
I owned Fords for 35 years and find Dodge trucks more suitable and to my likings. Also my neighbor says his Dodge is doing him fine.
So I go out and buy a Dodge with no regrets. that would not be a slam dunk decision.

Now the man wants a 50cc class saw. did not ask about pro saws.
History is as written and the future is to be announced.

Good luck on your search for a new saw. there many goods saws out to choose from.

 

[scrench]

The argument holds up just fine, what doesn't add up is your idea that it doesn't. If you had a saw that lasted 35 years why would you switch brands, seems its a slam dunk decision.

Thall,

With all due respect to a member with 2,627 posts, it sounds like you are advocating the old chestnut " If it ain't broke, why fix it?" That way of thinking is just plain common sense for someone still living in the early part of the 20th century. I am newbe enough to chainsaws to think, as Garrison Keillor once put it, "If it can't be fixed, it ain't broke". In this case, I take what Garrison said to mean: ask questions and not go by what has occured 35 years ago. I hope that you are observant enough to agree that plenty of products have changed since 1972. Some for the better, many for the worst.

Since others have pointed out that you are a long time user/rebuilder, have you found differences in the build quality in Stihl chainsaws in the past 35 years? Good or bad, biased or not, please....let 'er rip. If you can, use of specific examples would be appreciated.

 

[THALL10326]

Thall,

With all due respect to a member with 2,627 posts, it sounds like you are advocating the old chestnut " If it ain't broke, why fix it?" That way of thinking is just plain common sense for someone still living in the early part of the 20th century. I am newbe enough to chainsaws to think, as Garrison Keillor once put it, "If it can't be fixed, it ain't broke". In this case, I take what Garrison said to mean: ask questions and not go by what has occured 35 years ago. I hope that you are observant enough to agree that plenty of products have changed since 1972. Some for the better, many for the worst.

Since others have pointed out that you are a long time user/rebuilder, have you found differences in the build quality in Stihl chainsaws in the past 35 years? Good or bad, biased or not, please....let 'er rip. If you can, use of specific examples would be appreciated.

Ok my friend I'll make it easy for you. I say he should stick with the maker based on the 35 years of service he got out of his saw. Now you tell me why he should switch and give me a legit reason that outweighs why I say he should stick with what has worked. Go for it.

BTW the ole if it isn't broke don't fix it applies today just like it did in the last century. Its called learning.

 

[Woodie]

That argument would hold water if the Sthil build quality was exactly the same or better in 2007 as it was 1972. I don't know if it is or not and I would be interested in what the experience of long time users/rebuilders are.

The argument holds up just fine, what doesn't add up is your idea that it doesn't. If you had a saw that lasted 35 years why would you switch brands, seems its a slam dunk decision.

All due respect THALL, but I have to agree with Scrench on this one.

Let me start by saying I am NOT criticizing Stihl quality one iota...from what I've heard on this board they are every bit as good as they were in 1972.

But look at other tool companies...Delta Machinery comes immediately to mind. Their wood working tools, in 1972, were the gold standard. If it said Delta on it, you paid a premium for it, but you got a lot more than what you paid for. Woodworkers seek out those used machines now and typically pay as much or more for them than they would a new machine today.

But look at Delta tools today...they're absoulte pooh. Cheap Chaiwanese crap. Myself I wouldn't give you a warm bucket of sputum for what they trowel out on the unsuspecting woodworker. One can say the same thing, albeit to a slightly lesser extent, about Powermatic, Jet, and Wilton. But Porter Cable is even worse...they've become the laughing stock of the woodworking industry.

So for someone to say their 1972 Unisaw is fantastic, I would definetly buy another today...to my mind that would be a mistake.

 

[Lakeside53]

I'll take a stab with very broad brush stokes... fire away.... and of course it's "stihl oriented" 'cos it's what I know best...


There have been a lot of changes in saws over the past 25-35 years. The primary change is that the pro makers (not just Stihl) figured out how to make a saw for the consumer market as well as the pro market. Take the 031/32 for example - great old saw, many still running today, but it cost $350 or so 25 years ago... So in todays money, that's the cost of an MS 460. Not a lot of average consumers bought them... and it's where Stihl got labeled as expensive. Same for the 028 and 026.. and the 024 and 036. They tried to make the 024 as the consumer saw, but it really wasn't a lot different to the 026 in manufacture cost, and the same with the 034/36, and many other examples.

Part of the figuring was to partition the market and not have one part sully the good name of the other... - not all users put 6 hours a day / 200 days a year on their saws, so those users don't need or want the added cost of "pro" saw. On the other hand, the pro's demanded lighter, more powerful and more reliable saws.

Getting way from Alum and/or Magnesium casings was one change. Simplifying the manufacturing process was another. The Consumer grade saws are mainly PA66 (nylon) with the better saws using the GF form (Glass fiber filled). Pro saws use some PA66-GF, but in the parts that matter, Magnesium alloy is used.

Today's plastic is really tough. It's cheaper to manufacture than Mag, so most of the consumer saws are made from it. Combine this with simpler manufacturing, and you and up with a less expensive saws. The downside is that the consumer saws are harder (i.e. more expensive if done at a dealer) to repair than a pro level saws.

I like pro level saws, but the best sellers (quantity) are the consumer grade. The 290 (refered to as a boat-anchor by several AS members) is one of Stihl's best sellers, ditto with the MS250, and the consumers that buy them love them.. The good thing with Stihl (not a advertisement..) is that the consumer grade saws are really quite good and last well when not abused or used in a pro environment. Some other manufactures of the 80's and 90' with solid brand names went for "really cheap" consumer while trying to hold their pro position... and failed at both.

The pro grade saws today are a world ahead of the older saws (when they were all "pro grade"). Sure, an 041 FB or 051AV are great old saws, and cut real well, but heavy full-on-bone-shakers and slow reving. The next generation - 36/38/44/46 etc were better - much easier to work on, more reliable, faster cutting etc, lower vibration etc. The latest generation - the MS361 and 441 take it to the next level of vibration and reliability (441 still has to prove itself of course, but the 361 definitely has)..



O.k., that should start some arguements opcorn:

 

[Lakeside53]

History is as written and the future is to be announced.

.

Absolutely!

If you want a very long service and use life (both are important) the trick is choosing "the right saw" and a manf that will be in business in 25 years time... Step back to the mid 80's... Who would you all have chosen? I wouldn't have chosen that expensive "West German" brand - I'd have probably have said Dolmar or McCullough.


If you bought a saw 35 years ago, did you buy it thinking it would last 35 years? doubt it.. If you buy one today, how long do you think it will last? If you want to give it to your grandkids, then buy a pro. If you want to use a modestly priced saw and get your monies worth for say 10 years, get a good brand with dealer support (if you don't do your own work) and an assured parts supply.

 

[manual]

Yes Lake but you have to admit. lets take kirby Vacuum cleaners.
You look at them and there are built the same way. Same sales pitch.
Now look at the newer vacuums. More compact, lighter.

Sounds like Sthil and Kirby look at sales the same way.
Take the 026 now look at the Dolmar 5100.
You see the way I look at it Sthil needs a big enema.
The 361 was a start. The 441 is still in the bag.

 

[Lakeside53]

Yes Lake but you have to admit. lets take kirby Vacuum cleaners.
You look at them and there are built the same way. Same sales pitch.
Now look at the newer vacuums. More compact, lighter.

Sounds like Sthil and Kirby look at sales the same way.
Take the 026 now look at the Dolmar 5100.
You see the way I look at it Sthil needs a big enama

Maybe so.... but you are comparing the 18 year old 026 to the 1 (?) year old 5100. Remember your own words - history is still to be written on the 5100, and it may well be good, but the history is already written on the 026. How did the the 026 compare to the predecessor to the 5100? (that's written, but nobody talks about that...).
How will the 261 compare to the 5100? Who knows.. It's easy to pick on any one device (vacuum cleaner, saws, table saw) and compare any one point in time. It's much harder to see the continuous market/product overlap and longer trends.

I suspect Stihl's replacements for their entire product line will advance quite nicely.. and if they stumple on a model or two, some one will notice and they fix it the next time around... I bet Husky is already has the 575 feedback well noted and is well into the next rev of the design... just big business as normal.

 

[manual]

yes it is business as normal.
I would like to think that Dolmar is here to stay. The only way they will survive is putting out the best product.
I feel they got sthil worried. and thats healthy for all of us

 

[scrench]

Ok my friend I'll make it easy for you. I say he should stick with the maker based on the 35 years of service he got out of his saw. Now you tell me why he should switch and give me a legit reason that outweighs why I say he should stick with what has worked. Go for it.

BTW the ole if it isn't broke don't fix it applies today just like it did in the last century. Its called learning.

Thall,

You have have missed my original point by the widest of margins.

Having done so, you are now attempting to bait me into a different argument.

My apologies for not continuing this with you but there is nothing to be gained by it.



Lakeside,

Thanks for the Stihl history lesson. For someone that is just beginning an addiction to chainsaws, it is good stuff to know.

 

[TopJimmy]

Based on your expected use and your satisfaction with Stihl, I would not advise you against another one. I have a 029 Farm Boss that is several years old. It has been a good saw with no problems.

However, it is not the saw I would buy. I just don't pick up the 029 any more, but most of my other saws are considered "pro" models.

If 400.00 does not scare you off, you may want to consider the 5100. I have not had mine long enough to form an opinion from use. Based on the little use I have given it, it does not seem to cut any faster than the 346xp, but it has a lot more power and would take on a bigger bar with ease.

Good luck with your purchase. Sitick with one to the brands talked about in this thread and you will be happy.

WARNING - If you hang around here to long, you will start thinking about small saws, climbing saws, medium saws, large saws, muffler mods, porting etc. It is truly a sickness, now that I have every saw that I have ever wanted, I do not know what to consider next, probably should be professional help.

Jim

 

[THALL10326]

Thall,

You have have missed my original point by the widest of margins.

Having done so, you are now attempting to bait me into a different argument.

My apologies for not continuing this with you but there is nothing to be gained by it.



Lakeside,

Thanks for the Stihl history lesson. For someone that is just beginning an addiction to chainsaws, it is good stuff to know.

Scrench I don't quite understand why you say that, I'm not baiting you in to anything. I gave you my reasoning why I felt he should stick with the same maker of his last saw due to how long it lasted. You on the other hand have yet to say why he should switch or not switch. Its not me that is tongue tied here.
As for history the man has 35 years of proof from his old saw to justify another one from the same maker, the book on his part has already been written. If your asking will his new one be just as good the answer is simple, no one knows but I don't hear many stories of other brands going 35 years to justify a switch. Hows that for making it even easier to understand.

 

[spacemule]

Ok my friend I'll make it easy for you. I say he should stick with the maker based on the 35 years of service he got out of his saw. Now you tell me why he should switch and give me a legit reason that outweighs why I say he should stick with what has worked. Go for it.

BTW the ole if it isn't broke don't fix it applies today just like it did in the last century. Its called learning.

Thal, you're smarter than this post. Or, are you assuming we're as dumb as this rhetoric?

 

[THALL10326]

Thal, you're smarter than this post. Or, are you assuming we're as dumb as this rhetoric?

Space if you can't figure out what it says then maybe I am not assuming but expecting more common sense. Its ok though, I can overlook those that lack it........

 

[wagonwheeler]

:deadhorse:

I can see how this movie ends...there will be no more assurance for the question asked than there was prior to the query being made... maybe if one could inject assurance w/ a needle...

Out with the incumbent!

OK...now back to the SHOW...

Chaser

 

[blacksheep1998]

As someone else said, yeah I know "boss" is just a label they throw on the side. From my old saw the specifics on it are very hard to find, heck even parts took a month to locate. If it was still around I could give you serial numbers to look up and find out what it was. Anyways, I figured if they called it a "Boss" back then, it should be the same size/class of saw now just updated materials and technology.

As for the Warranty's they are the same 2 years on both for consumer use. The husky gives you lifetime on ignition parts only. The dealers around here are limited. I have 2 Sthil dealers (there are more, but i have not dealt with them) that have been in business since the late 60's, one has turned to the darkside and rips you off every single time (the also sell snappers), the other is still family owned, they sit and will talk shop all day long, and have great service. I have used them for parts and advice over the past couple of years and it has all been great. With the Husky dealers only found a couple around here kind of far out, other than the lowes/home depot/northern tool kind of place, but those guys only sell, not service so they don't really know reliability.

So what I'll take from all you guys advise is to go with either the same brand I have used in the past, or the one with the best dealer support in my area. Since the saws I am looking at are the same price points, I was looking for a specific reason as to not go Stihl, or husky.

I'll go visit the Stihl dealer I know next week and pick up a saw. It is going to be in the 270/290 range, as I have not seen anyone post that I should go smaller. I also can't justify the price diff for a PRO saw, yeah I dont like the thought of plastic, but if 1000's of people use them, this list would kow if there were serious problems.

Thanks for the advise.
Pete

 

[Brushwacker]

If I were to buy 1 saw it would be a Stihl all the way. From my experiance 25+ years they are the most trustworthy and best investment.(Just my 2 cents.)

 

[manual]

As someone else said, yeah I know "boss" is just a label they throw on the side. From my old saw the specifics on it are very hard to find, heck even parts took a month to locate. If it was still around I could give you serial numbers to look up and find out what it was. Anyways, I figured if they called it a "Boss" back then, it should be the same size/class of saw now just updated materials and technology.

As for the Warranty's they are the same 2 years on both for consumer use. The husky gives you lifetime on ignition parts only. The dealers around here are limited. I have 2 Sthil dealers (there are more, but i have not dealt with them) that have been in business since the late 60's, one has turned to the darkside and rips you off every single time (the also sell snappers), the other is still family owned, they sit and will talk shop all day long, and have great service. I have used them for parts and advice over the past couple of years and it has all been great. With the Husky dealers only found a couple around here kind of far out, other than the lowes/home depot/northern tool kind of place, but those guys only sell, not service so they don't really know reliability.

So what I'll take from all you guys advise is to go with either the same brand I have used in the past, or the one with the best dealer support in my area. Since the saws I am looking at are the same price points, I was looking for a specific reason as to not go Stihl, or husky.

I'll go visit the Stihl dealer I know next week and pick up a saw. It is going to be in the 270/290 range, as I have not seen anyone post that I should go smaller. I also can't justify the price diff for a PRO saw, yeah I dont like the thought of plastic, but if 1000's of people use them, this list would kow if there were serious problems.

Thanks for the advise.
Pete

The Question I have for you is did you get a chance to look at Dolmars product. Also did you get a chance to look at Echos Product?
As said in many post around here Dolmars made top of line you can get a saw that will last you and not built out of plastic.
There is even a well known Sthil Dealer that has said he is thinking of buying a dolmar 5100

 

[wagonwheeler]

I didn't check out every woman in the world before I picked my wife...

I know a hunting plantation here that buys 270's exclusively for all thier needs. They love 'em. My buddy who supervises there couldn't understand why I wanted to get a 361 - why not a 270. I told him I was getting a 361 because I couldn't afford a 440...

270/280 seem to be hybrid homeowner/proesque saws. And the few owners heard from like 'em. But maybe more will chime in.

Chaser

The Question I have for you is did you get a chance to look at Dolmars product. Also did you get a chance to look at Echos Product?
As said in many post around here Dolmars made top of line you can get a saw that will last you and not built out of plastic.
There is even a well known Sthil Dealer that has said he is thinking of buying a dolmar 5100

 

[manual]

four or five brands is not the whole world.
I know that I have gone through more woman then that before I found the one to settle down with.
Besides I don't know if I want to compare women to chainsaws.