residual pine beetles

[old dude]

Guys--
What is your take on residual pine beetles after the tree has turned brown?
Anything to be concerned about?
The forestry service says that the beetles are gone by the time the tree turns brown but I have often noted residual beetles within the cambium.
Is this a threat? are there too few ?
Old dude

 

[Fireaxman]

Old Dude, I have seen a lot of active beetles and larvae in pines I have been cutting when I get on them pretty fast after they turn brown. I'm sure it has a lot to do with how fast you get on them, how long they have been brown.

Once they are down, the increased temperature at ground level is supposed to kill them, but I'm not taking the chance. Afternoon thunderstorms sometimes prevent the afternoon temps from reaching the usual 90+ degrees. I'm spraying the neighboring trunks with permethrin as a repellant, and I also spray the tree I cut if I dont burn it the same day I cut it.

 

[treeseer]

"The forestry service says that the beetles are gone by the time the tree turns brown"

What about the eggs and the larvae?

Who/what pub in the NCFS are you quoting?

 

[xtremetrees]

Some say that chipping them, the logs, the brush, will kill the beetles. I dont think so, and then they dump the chips right back into the yard.

 

[Stumper]

Usually the adults have hatched and flown by the time the tree browns-that doesn't mean always. Chipping leaves the larvae without an environment to mature in. If beetles were just about to fly it is concievible that they might survive chipping and go create a problem but that is a small window and from a management standpoint can be pretty well ignored. Wood can safely be salvaged by stacking in a sunny area and covering with black plastic-The interior will get hot enough to kill the larvae.

 

[Diesel JD]

When we had the pine beetle in 1993 and in subsequent years, the city took them down and treated the trunks and neighboring trees with Dursban, no longer a(legal) option. I have heard of the wood being salvaged for pulpwood, since from my understanding, the beetles destroy the tree's vascular system while leaving most of the wood unharmed. My uncle works for a company with lots of pines on their land and they sold the trees to a logging company for pulpwood when the trees had to be removed. Kind of a way to make something OK out of a bad break.

 

[Fireaxman]

... I have heard of the wood being salvaged for pulpwood, since from my understanding, the beetles destroy the tree's vascular system while leaving most of the wood unharmed. ...

The wood can actually still be salvaged for saw logs if you get on it before the bark starts to slip. It is often infected by Blue Stain, since the beetles carry that fungus, but I dont think that hurts it for treated timber.

Unfortunately, the market down here is so saturated with Katrina damaged wood that it's hardly worth salvaging. I'm burning most of it, but with the dry weather earlier in the year there were long periods of Burn Ban, when it had to sit in a pile until we got enough rain for the burn ban to be lifted. The first time that happened, I lost 4 trees in close proximity to the pile waitng to be burned. Hence, from then on, the Permethrin. I think I have them stopped finally in that stand of trees.

Regardless of what the Forest Service says, I have found adults and larvae in trees that were totally brown, but the sap had not stopped flowing. I think IPS beetles stay in the tree longer than Southern Pine Bark, and we have mostly IPS, but it is hard to tell the difference without a microscope.Check the tree after you get it down. The beetles and the larvae are easy to spot. Scrape the bark close to any pitch tubes with a log peeler, hoe, or shovel. Look in the channels under the bark for little white worms about the size of a grain of rice and/or little brown or black beetles about the same size.

4 spined IPS usually attack at the top of the tree. Southern Pine Bark hit a longer section. Black Turpentine will be mostly at the bottom of the tree. Right now, we have them all.

Stumper's suggestion on black plastic is excellent. But I spray. I know the bark is impervious to spray, but any remaining adults and pupae soon exit the bark and start looking for another tree. Permethrin is not as good as the old Lindane or Dursban, but the beetles sure dont like it.

 

[highsiera]

pine borers, beetles et. al.

Can one of y'all post some good resolution pics of adults and/or larvae so others can identify these little buggers, (apologies if this has been coverred in an earlier thread).


Also, are there any "household" remedies to draw them away from intended targets (think dish of beer and salt for slugs etc...)

Here in central VA these seem to be moving on from the pines to our native hollies recently...

 

[Fireaxman]

Can one of y'all post some good resolution pics of adults and/or larvae so others can identify these little buggers, (apologies if this has been coverred in an earlier thread).


Also, are there any "household" remedies to draw them away from intended targets (think dish of beer and salt for slugs etc...)

Here in central VA these seem to be moving on from the pines to our native hollies recently...

Let's see if this works:

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35551&d=1151641549

Sorry about the focus, I dont have a macro lense, but it will give you a pretty good idea. IPS and SPBB are same size and color. Can be brown or black. You can only tell the difference from the shape of the abdomen and presence of spines on the abdomen. In other words, need a microscope. Black Turpentine beetles are a little bigger, and from the name I assume they are always black.

For "Home Remedies", A local arborist, Malcomb Guidry, in a Mandeville town hall meeting last week, suggested painting the trunk of neighboring trees with diesel as a repellant for Black Turpentine Beetles. Obviously not effective on IPS or SPBB when they are spreading crown to crown, but it might be just as good as Permethrin to help prevent residual beetles in a down tree from crawling up neighboring pines.

Malcomb also said they are strictly pine specific. Would not attack a holly.

 

[Fireaxman]

IPS Larvae

For a picture of the larvae, try the attachment below. There are also some adults in the pict, but they are hard to see in the background of the bark because of their brown color. There are a very few of the black ones you can see if you look close.

If you really need a higher resolution picture, PM me and I'll send one, but since I am limited to dial-up and it takes me a while to upload meg plus files I'll start with this. Look for the little white "grains of rice" in the channells, those are the larvae.

Edit Correction 5:41 PM 08/24/06 - got my trees confused. This tree was not solid brown. It still had a very few green branches on it. But it had been mostly brown for at least week before I got to it.

For a look at the tree you can go to:

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36411&d=1153698515

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I have heard of the wood being salvaged for pulpwood, since from my understanding, the beetles destroy the tree's vascular system while leaving most of the wood unharmed.

I just took one down that looked to have been beetle killed. It was going brown a year ago, solid brown this spring. The wood is fine. You could mill it if you wanted pine boards.