thompson1600
ArboristSite Guru
I am curious about how you can change timing by increasing/decreasing the length of the iginition lead. Is this possible?
Tom
Tom
retard timing by length of ignition lead?
- Thread starter thompson1600
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begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
Yes.
the spark is traveling at 186,000 miles per second. Use that figure to compute how many miles of lead wire you will need.
-Ralph
the spark is traveling at 186,000 miles per second. Use that figure to compute how many miles of lead wire you will need.
-Ralph
bugfart
ArboristSite Operative
What about capacitance. There is a thing called a RC and LC time constants that could be fiddled with? Not trying to be Marconi, but curious now.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
186,000 - that's the speed of light. Propagation of electrical current in a cable is "only" about 10,000 miles per second. You won't need as much ignition wire as you think, but it's more than you can carry
If you seriously want to retard the ignition, remove the key on the crank and adjust the flywheel position. The key is only used for location, not as an anti-rotational device. The flywheel is locked onto the taper shaft by frictional forces that result a from "stretching" (microns) of the flywheel and lock it down. That's why it's important to degrease and thoroughly clean the flywheel/crank stub before assembly. Taking this one stage further, you don't "need" the nut on the crank end once it's torqued down fully. The nut is just there to apply the correct force to the flywheel to lock it onto the taper shaft. Irrespective of the theory, I however would just leave the nut on!!!! I've removed the key many times on the 031 when converting from points to electronic ignition. The timing is about 20 degrees out and makes the muffler glow red if you don't change the flywheel position....
If you seriously want to retard the ignition, remove the key on the crank and adjust the flywheel position. The key is only used for location, not as an anti-rotational device. The flywheel is locked onto the taper shaft by frictional forces that result a from "stretching" (microns) of the flywheel and lock it down. That's why it's important to degrease and thoroughly clean the flywheel/crank stub before assembly. Taking this one stage further, you don't "need" the nut on the crank end once it's torqued down fully. The nut is just there to apply the correct force to the flywheel to lock it onto the taper shaft. Irrespective of the theory, I however would just leave the nut on!!!! I've removed the key many times on the 031 when converting from points to electronic ignition. The timing is about 20 degrees out and makes the muffler glow red if you don't change the flywheel position....
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
Seems I stand corrected on the numbers, but not on the gist
Yep, move the flywheel, or the magneto.
The radars we trained on had a .1 sec delay board in them, it was 1/2 the total size and weight of the unit. Prob better ways of doing it now, those were old outdated units back then just to train on.
-Ralph
Yep, move the flywheel, or the magneto.
The radars we trained on had a .1 sec delay board in them, it was 1/2 the total size and weight of the unit. Prob better ways of doing it now, those were old outdated units back then just to train on.
-Ralph
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
It's possible, but needs to be done on the trigger end, not the high voltage end. The only way to "delay" a voltage pulse by LRC is to to absorb part of the pulse, and that will reduce the voltage. It will also add a TC (time constant) to the leading edge of the pulse changing the ignition fire characteristics. This was sooooo much easier with points!bugfart said:
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
There are a couple of other way if you just want a few degrees:thompson1600 said:
1) mill out the coil mount holes (in the coil) to slots. Most Stihl coils are the same 0000 400 1300 coil so there are plently around to experiement with.
2) make a small adapter plate to mount in the saw. then just offset drill and tap the coil mount holes. There is space in most of the Stihl saws to do this, and room to move maybe 10-15 degrees.
Blowdown1
ArboristSite Operative
what I was thinking
Lakeside hit on it. I used to roadrace motorcycles and I had a setup that had a two-piece billet crank cover that you could rotate a few degrees so that the magneto pickup was moved slightly, thereby retarding or advancing the ignition.
Lakeside hit on it. I used to roadrace motorcycles and I had a setup that had a two-piece billet crank cover that you could rotate a few degrees so that the magneto pickup was moved slightly, thereby retarding or advancing the ignition.
I see some misunderstandings hereLakeside53 said:186,000 - that's the speed of light. Propagation of electrical current in a cable is "only" about 10,000 miles per second. You won't need as much ignition wire as you think, but it's more than you can carry
If you seriously want to retard the ignition, remove the key on the crank and adjust the flywheel position. The key is only used for location, not as an anti-rotational device. The flywheel is locked onto the taper shaft by frictional forces that result a from "stretching" (microns) of the flywheel and lock it down. That's why it's important to degrease and thoroughly clean the flywheel/crank stub before assembly. Taking this one stage further, you don't "need" the nut on the crank end once it's torqued down fully. The nut is just there to apply the correct force to the flywheel to lock it onto the taper shaft. Irrespective of the theory, I however would just leave the nut on!!!! I've removed the key many times on the 031 when converting from points to electronic ignition. The timing is about 20 degrees out and makes the muffler glow red if you don't change the flywheel position....
Speed of light and electrical current are the same, but
the propagation of the electric current impulses or waves in real objects is determined with the LC impedance of the "object" (wire).
So, the propagation speed of the spark impulse is determined with the impedance of the wire, and is much, much lower than speed of light
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Hey, I was just trying to simplify it for the audience! Transmission line theory is probably not where this thread should go, but maybe I'm wrong, again!
The basic (very basic) reason why electrons travel slower than light is that they have to physically "bump" into each other to move the next one down the line. O.K., some fissiks major jump in here...
Transmission line theory is probably not where this thread should go, but maybe I'm wrong, again! The basic (very basic) reason why electrons travel slower than light is that they have to physically "bump" into each other to move the next one down the line. O.K., some fissiks major jump in here...
Lakeside53 said:Hey, I was just trying to simplify it for the audience!
The basic (very basic) reason why electrons travel slower than light is that they have to physically "bump" into each other to move the next one down the line. O.K., some fissiks major jump in here...
Probably thats is right, not to start course of physics here
But we cant mess-up the movement of electrons with the propagation of the electric potental, here
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
just testing you to see if you knew what you are talking about maybe you do....
maybe you do....
Fish
Tree Freak
Have you guys heard of MY Maglev bar/chain system? I am thinking of storing current in the chain loop, and using to power other things while out cutting wood.
Maglev
Fish , how do you sharpen the maglev system with current stored in the chain ?
Fish , how do you sharpen the maglev system with current stored in the chain ?
klickitatsacket
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hey fish why not just plug into the current bush?
Al Smith
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well,that won't work either.Why would a person want to retard the ignition?
Most solid state ignitions get their trigger fire circuit by firing at the top of the induction loop,magnetically speaking.The easiest way would be to mill the holes in the coil a bit,so you could move the coil in the direction of rotation,thus retarding the spark.
I suppose a person could redesign the trigger circuit to advance farther but due to the fact that the modules are epoxy encapsulated this would be quite a feat.This is interesting in concept but rather difficult in practical application.
Most solid state ignitions get their trigger fire circuit by firing at the top of the induction loop,magnetically speaking.The easiest way would be to mill the holes in the coil a bit,so you could move the coil in the direction of rotation,thus retarding the spark.
I suppose a person could redesign the trigger circuit to advance farther but due to the fact that the modules are epoxy encapsulated this would be quite a feat.This is interesting in concept but rather difficult in practical application.
Fish
Tree Freak
The current one is on the rag
buck futter
ArboristSite Guru
Yes, but additionally lets say you wrapped the lead around a pencil multiple times and then removed the pencil but left the wire in that form.thompson1600 said:
What would that be?
How would it work?
With this wrapped wire how could you adjust the delay?
Would that be on the primary or secondary of the circuit?
lucky
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