Rigging setup

[outonalimbts]

oops, I meant to go in to some detail about WLL

I assumed that you bought the more expensive 3/4" rope because you wanted the higher rating on weight. So I should have opened up the reply with a discussion about the Working load limit of the rope you acquired.

You must remember to be very careful to make sure your estimates are very close to accurate in regards to the size and species of the wood you are going to be lowering. Just because your rope is rated for a static load of (ex: 19,000#) doesn't mean you can exert that much of a load on it. The formula most often used is 1/5th the rated strength of a new rope. I like to improve my risk by utilizing a 1/8 th ratio to be on the safe side.

I am very careful and I insist my crew be extremely careful to inspect the gear every time we use it. Some knap is expected, but frays aren't, if there are burned areas we either cut them out or retire the rope entirely. Of course these are only a couple of the things we look for, but I am not going to detail them all here...

The rigging carabineers you spoke of should be in the 50kn or better ratings, especially if you are going to be shocking any of them, ever!

In any case, there are some great articles about WLL on this site, and if you haven't read them, then look for them.

Be careful, it's dangerous out there.

 

[ddhlakebound]

I'm curious about why none of you guys use amsteel? The 3/8 amsteel wll is only slightly less than the 3/4 tenex, and higher than the 3/4 stable braid. It weighs almost nothing, and with 1 whoopie sling I can attach the porty to any tree from 13" - 56" diameter.

Is there something other than the cost that you guys don't like about it?

Here's a pic of my rig bag. It's not built for working big wood by any means, but it's done everything I've needed from it so far.

 

[outonalimbts]

I like your rig kit

Amsteel isn't available every where... I like it and it is expensive, do you use it on your speed line too? How well does it fair with glazing? I understood that it's cover wasn't the best for melting.

Be careful it's dangerous out there.

 

[jomoco]

Sweet rig bag DDH!

jomoco

 

[ddhlakebound]

You can order it right from Sherril, shipped anywhere.

I only use the amsteel in low friction placement. It melts easily, and doesn't wear well moving on bark or rope.

I don't have a decent speedline rope yet, that's high on the list. I'll probably go with a 9/16 or 5/8 stable or super braid when I get it. I'm sure the amsteel would be great, but that's gettin real pricey for a 200 ft hank. I don't speedline enough to justify it.

 

[outonalimbts]

OK then what are you using all those slings for?

I use the loop runners mostly for speed lining material, perhaps I am missing something...

I also noticed how many figure 8's you have, don't you find they twist the rope bad? I have some square edged ones, they seem to be better, and the rescue 8 is a bit better too.

 

[ddhlakebound]

I use the loop runners mostly for speed lining material, perhaps I am missing something...

I also noticed how many figure 8's you have, don't you find they twist the rope bad? I have some square edged ones, they seem to be better, and the rescue 8 is a bit better too.

I got them for speedlining several months back, but haven't filled out the speedline kit completely. I've used them for lowering multiple small limbs over houses at a time, and for footholds climbing spikeless.

I have not used the 8's. I got them used, and don't intend on using them for life support. They mostly sit in the bottom of the bag waiting for a creative usage, probably shouldn't have even included them in the pic. I do want a rescue 8, but don't really need one.

 

[rob b]

i just ordered a block sling combo, i made my own out of extra 3/4 just out of nessicity at the time and it has held up well. you are right about knowing how much you can load and how good your groundy is THERE IS NO I IN TEAM

 

[outonalimbts]

That is a nice website... I like the 8's for groundies...

Sometimes we work with other tree services, and their groundies can't seem to tie the correct knots especially when we are using a speed line. So, we do use the 8's then. so they can release the tension on the speed line, then re-tighten it with little supervision.

The class to teach the 8 is much shorter than the class to teach either the taught line or the blake's hitch.

The only reason I would get Amsteel is to have a lowering line, and as you confirmed it wouldn't hold up well... I prefer the rope I have it has been proven time and again...

Nice website, it is yours?

 

[ddhlakebound]

The only reason I would get Amsteel is to have a lowering line, and as you confirmed it wouldn't hold up well... I prefer the rope I have it has been proven time and again...

Nice website, it is yours?

Yes, it's mine. Designed and built by my wife, and I wrote the content. It's in it's 2nd generation now, this one is much better, and easier to administrate.

Your website looks very good too, do you handle administrating it?

I wouldn't want amsteel as a lowering line, even if it would hold up to the heat and friction. It's got almost no stretch, and would shock slings, blocks, portys, and the tree much more than a rigging line thats got a touch of bounce to it.

 

[outonalimbts]

website...

Yes, it's mine. Designed and built by my wife, and I wrote the content. It's in it's 2nd generation now, this one is much better, and easier to administrate.

Your website looks very good too, do you handle administrating it?.

As with your website this is the second generation also, I prefer to manage my own business, so yes I take care of that too.

I would like to talk to you sometime about some of the content you have on your site, as it is well written. I may like to borrow some of it... of course I would never plagiarize you.

Very nice layout though.

Stretch, the arborplex stretches a lot, it is less when it runs but it is noticeable. The stable braid doesn't stretch that much but it does also stretch, I am not crazy about picking on the stable though, if it touches the bark while running, there will be a pull in the sheath and it is a pain to milk it out again.

Back to your picture, what do you do with all of those screw gated biners? I have some, but they don't seem to be good for much. I was using the HMS locking ovals when speed lining but the grounds men were having problems unhooking them, I went to good spring loaded biners instead. they haven't had problems since, and I am very careful to always watch my WLL very carefully on these.

:chainsawguy:

 

[rbtree]

I wouldn't want amsteel as a lowering line, even if it would hold up to the heat and friction. It's got almost no stretch, and would shock slings, blocks, portys, and the tree much more than a rigging line thats got a touch of bounce to it.

Correct. Spectra/dyneema lines should only be used for lifting or pulling, never for dynamic rigging.

HMWPE fibers are also sensitive to heat,friction, and abrasion, and for that matter aren't even optimal for use as a block sling, whoopie or loopie.

I use 9/16th polyester cover/spectra core line for lifting use on the GRCS or for pulling. Handles abrasion the same as any d/b line, but is rated at 19,000 tensile. Like all spectra lines, it is rated for use at close to its tensile strength repeatedly, as long as it isn't shock loaded. I've walked down entire hung trees with this line. The largest probably weighed 15,000 lb....it was hung at a 45 degree angle, and we had two lines on it, from two gin poles.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Back to your picture, what do you do with all of those screw gated biners? I have some, but they don't seem to be good for much. I was using the HMS locking ovals when speed lining but the grounds men were having problems unhooking them, I went to good spring loaded biners instead. they haven't had problems since, and I am very careful to always watch my WLL very carefully on these.

:chainsawguy:

I don't think I have any screw locks in the bag. I've got a couple sitting around here somewhere, but they stay home. The biners on the loop runners and 8's are single action aluminum. The four laying on top of the loop runners are 2 tri-act aluminum, and 2 tri-act steel.

The single action aluminum's are only used for light, non dynamic rigging. They're only rated a bit under 15kN, so I'm watching the wll on them carefully.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Correct. Spectra/dyneema lines should only be used for lifting or pulling, never for dynamic rigging.

HMWPE fibers are also sensitive to heat,friction, and abrasion, and for that matter aren't even optimal for use as a block sling, whoopie or loopie.

I use 9/16th polyester cover/spectra core line for lifting use on the GRCS or for pulling. Handles abrasion the same as any d/b line, but is rated at 19,000 tensile. Like all spectra lines, it is rated for use at close to its tensile strength repeatedly, as long as it isn't shock loaded. I've walked down entire hung trees with this line. The largest probably weighed 15,000 lb....it was hung at a 45 degree angle, and we had two lines on it, from two gin poles.

Thx RB. I had to go look up the high molecular weight polyethelene, I had no idea what HMWPE was.

In sling usage heat and friction are mostly removed (aren't they?) so we've only got abrasion to worry about. Not trying to say that amsteel is optimal, cause I know it doesn't wear well, but I like the size, strength, and weight really well compared to 3/4" sling material of similar tensile strength. Maybe I'll change my mind if they wear out too quickly.

Where do you get the poly cover spectra core line? How much is it? I've only hung and walked down one small hickory, about 10-12"er, and I made the mistake of using arbor plex to try it. Worked out ok overall, but the stretch caused me to damage the soffit of the house when the limbs angled up as we blocked it out from the butt. In retrospect, it would have been faster, easier, and cheaper to just rig it out, considering the time and cost of the soffit repair. Would have been different with a static rope.

 

[teamtree]

I forgot to mention one of my early favorites for rigging....the three strand rope......great rope for natural crotch rigging. One thing I have learned from watching others in this industry is how many different styles and equipment set ups there are to do the same job. I like to try new things but I am pretty set in my way for rigging trees down but I rarely use my 3/4" except on really big tops and blocking spars down. We had a 3/4" eye sling fail this past year.....I told myself I needed to replace it but I used it one time too many. I am know in the process of replacing all slings and trying to get a rotation going to switch out ropes and slings on a regular basis.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I am know in the process of replacing all slings and trying to get a rotation going to switch out ropes and slings on a regular basis.

Put any web slings on the top of the list, I've had two cut themselves on moderate size loads. Tenex is a superior material for rigging slings.