roadside wood gathering

[RCR 3 EVER]

In MI firewood permits are available for a fee to collect firewood from a designated area. There is a limit I believe of 1 permit for a family for several cords to be taken from certain areas that the state designates, such as wind damaged etc.
How would these tree thieves feel if I saw their "abandoned" car or tractor. parked alongside a road while they were off collecting wood. Gee, I need a tractor, nobody around, I guess I will help myself to it. Same mentality!
Or like on Axeman show, see a rope lying on the ground, I guess it will be mine now! Gee it sure was nice of these guys to leave all these logs lying around on the hillside, I guess they are done clearing the site. I will help myself to them.

It is all theft, but scroungers usually get away with it.
To say that the rich landowners have the trees that the poor lowly folks need for heat is a crock of :censored:. I know for a FACT I am not rich nor is my family. The thieves are probably richer since they do not pay for anything and probably sell the wood anyway.

 

[2FatGuys]

Wood scroungers will be having a hay day around here for a week or so. We had severe storms last night that spawned several tornados. The tree services are out in full force working in predatory storm chasing mode today. We are booked up too much with real work to follow their lead.

 

[gink595]

I haven't done the wood scrounging thing, I don't think I have the balls to start taking wood on someones property, I'm with some of the others on this, I have property out in the middle of no where, which has a gravel pit in it also, so it's a dirt bike four wheeler heaven. I have a pile of ash and walnut trees cut up and many more to go for a land clearing project to convert it back to farm land, I'd be pissed if someone came back there and bucked them up (unless they cut them in 16-18" sections and left them) I would definatly call the sheriff if I caught anyone.
But on the other hand I have been busy clearing fence rows for some farmers around here, In fact I bought a grapple bucket for my Bobcat to assist in clearing more and piling the top and brush up to burn off. I guess the way they see it is the fence rows are in their way and they would have to clear them out themselves or pay someone. so I get free firewood by them letting me clear their fence rows or edges of fields. I figured the otherday that I have cut 19 cord of wood since Jan. Most of it is Black Cherry some White Oak and of course American and Red Elm and a maple or two. The trees I don't really want to waste time on get cut in two and thrown in the brush pile. Ask your local farmers about fence rows it's benefical to everyone involved and might get a friend out of the deal.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Driving along a country road with private property alongside it does not allow you to take the wood even if there is nobody to ask!

Hmmm. Agreed, if it's private property. There are a couple of very nice hickory logs along my commute route, just fallen last winter, and since I've been driving it for a few years now, I know that nobody pays any attention to that property. If a tree falls, it stays where it is, if the utilities drop a nice hickory log, it just lays there and rots. There are a half dozen of them right now, too far gone to be useful. But it's still on private property, so I leave it alone.

Public right of way is a different story. On the one road I scrounge, I know the width of the right of way extends a good 10 feet on either side of the road. That's the only place I scrounge. That's where the utilities leave the wood.

When I had a house in California, my actual legally defined property extended to the middle of the street (in town). The road and sidewalks were on an easement from the property owners on that street. Here in Virginia, it doesn't work that way. My property legally ends a good 12 feet BEFORE the actual street, and I maintain the grass on that 12 foot strip as if it were mine. But actually, it's not.

So, the moral of the story is, different areas have different rules.

 

[MJR]

A gentleman I work with just bought a piece of land that was logged a year a go, just maple. He said I could cut all the fire wood I wanted. The logger did a great job of stacking a load of fire wood logs right next to the road. I now have about 4 full cords ready to be spilt at the house. Did I mention right next to the road and 12 minutes away from the house. It doesn’t get much better.

 

[buckwheat]

I haven't scrounged in a while, but I've noticed this spring from riding my bicycle around the area that there is a lot of wood down from the Right of Way guys going through, especially locust. I think I'm going to start knocking on doors.

 

[ray benson]

I get some line clearance wood occasionally. It is nice to get the wood but it is unfulfilling as I really enjoy running the saws.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

Hmmm. Agreed, if it's private property. There are a couple of very nice hickory logs along my commute route, just fallen last winter, and since I've been driving it for a few years now, I know that nobody pays any attention to that property. If a tree falls, it stays where it is, if the utilities drop a nice hickory log, it just lays there and rots. There are a half dozen of them right now, too far gone to be useful. But it's still on private property, so I leave it alone.

Public right of way is a different story. On the one road I scrounge, I know the width of the right of way extends a good 10 feet on either side of the road. That's the only place I scrounge. That's where the utilities leave the wood.

When I had a house in California, my actual legally defined property extended to the middle of the street (in town). The road and sidewalks were on an easement from the property owners on that street. Here in Virginia, it doesn't work that way. My property legally ends a good 12 feet BEFORE the actual street, and I maintain the grass on that 12 foot strip as if it were mine. But actually, it's not.

So, the moral of the story is, different areas have different rules.

I agree about public easements, a tree falls on the easement it can be cut up to the easement. I have seen many road crews cut fallen trees just to the edge of the road, why can't the scroungers follow suit?

But when you drive 1 mile on a dead end small 1 lane county dirt road that serves only 2 houses with private property right up to the edges and sometimes center of the curvy road that is a different story. The road leads to state land that is land locked by private land. Trees have been cut down for trails and wood, fences cut, and property stolen.

A property owner next to us thought he owned 20 acres when he really owned 10. He thinned about 20 mature BEECH trees a few 20 inch DBH, we caught him hauling the last few out, his court fine was we kept the last of the wood but we also lost the trees. WE chose not to fine him monetarily since he has already proven to be a BAD neighbor and cut trails through our property for his snowmobiles by chopping down trees.

We have planted 10,000+ trees on property and are losing many trees to theft for firewood since many that are cut are too small for timber sales.

On another note: an oil company came in looking for oil that we do not own rights for. They needed to test in a certain spots by blasting, except there were trees there. Final result: trees cut down, no oil found.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

Public easements utility clearing all fine for gathering. Private land is Private and the owner may or may not live on it. We have a cabin on our land but do not live in it year round.
If a person is unsure of the owner of a piece of land they want to get wood from go to the county and look at the plat book for owner names or for tax parcel info for contact info. Who knows by just asking the owner you may be able to get the wood you want. just an idea

 

[woodbooga]

Public easements utility clearing all fine for gathering. Private land is Private and the owner may or may not live on it.

Amen RCR. Even aside from the legal issue, there's a definite ettiquette to follow.

My scrounging is limited to right of way crew cuttings and deadfall (we own a 100-year-old cookstove, so even a 2" or 3" stick of oak is good - we use the small stuff when it's time for cooking).

Even when scrounging in this way, one needs to be mindful of property owners' rights. For example, here in NH, where the landscape is crisscrossed with 200-yr-old stone walls, I never touch anything that is beyond one of these markers. The utilities contact property owners before doing any major tree removal,maintenance. If the owner doesn't want the wood, it's left conspicously on the roadside, free for the taking. However, if a property owner wants the wood, it gets tossed in 4' lengths on or over a the stone wall. Responsible woodboogers round here know you do not touch this wood.

 

[woodbooga]

I haven't scrounged in a while, but I've noticed this spring from riding my bicycle around the area that there is a lot of wood down from the Right of Way guys going through, especially locust. I think I'm going to start knocking on doors.

In addition to being the right thing to do, often talking with the property owner yields new opportunities. For example, last fall (just before the first of many, many snowflakes flew) I was making a routine trip to the market. For months, I had been eyeing a downed sugar maple snag - still solid, not spongey - on the side or the road. That day, the old timer who owned the land was out in his dooryard and I stopped in to inquire. Sorry, spoken for he informed me. However, he owned dozens of acres out back and invited me to harvest whatever deadfall I wanted, as well as the leftovers from some selective cutting done a couple years back. I got about 4 pickup loads that day, as well as an invitation to come back anytime.

A less polite scrounger would have ticked off one heck of a nice guy for a quarter pickup load. By doing the right thing, I made a friend and got a good charge of fuel in the process. I think the moral of the story is self evident.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I agree about public easements, a tree falls on the easement it can be cut up to the easement. I have seen many road crews cut fallen trees just to the edge of the road, why can't the scroungers follow suit?

But when you drive 1 mile on a dead end small 1 lane county dirt road that serves only 2 houses with private property right up to the edges and sometimes center of the curvy road that is a different story.

Agreed! A VERY different story! I only scrounge on my commute route, where I know the easements, and then, only obviously storm downed stuff cut up by the utility guys.

If a person is unsure of the owner of a piece of land they want to get wood from go to the county and look at the plat book for owner names or for tax parcel info for contact info. Who knows by just asking the owner you may be able to get the wood you want. just an idea

Yeah, those two nice hickory logs have had me thinking about doing just that. Both about 24" at the butt, one maybe 18 feet the other about 12. Nice firewood.

BUT, I can have all I want, loaded for free by a log processing company, so it's hard to justify the time & trouble to go after those logs. Might do it anyway...

 

[tatra805]

Here the story is a little bit different. Almost all our secondary roads have fruit trees at both sides. Some old habit to make the road sides visible in winter.

I probably pass +200 cherry trees between workplace and home which are marked to be removed. Most of them dead standing. for at least 3 years...

Well.... There is no company who is interested in actually removing them. Probably as state is not offering enough cash for the job.

I do know one thing... anybody trying to remove a tree, even fallen down branches will have about 15min to get out of the place before police will turn up to give a nice fine which for sure is 10 times more than the value as the firewood.

Here no cutting allowed. Even as an owner of any tree bigger diameter as 15'' you will need written permission of the forrestry administration, local council and building office before you can remove it.....
:jawdrop:


It is that strict and administrative that i know of companies having about 100acres of forest (in which their breeding halls are located) non maintained for at least 18 years. It is for them now too expensive to have a company cleaning up this mess of wildgrow and despite majority of the people heating with wood and willing to cut out their firewood they cant get the permission to allow non-pro cutting....


sad sad sad

 

[cjcocn]

Here the story is a little bit different. Almost all our secondary roads have fruit trees at both sides. Some old habit to make the road sides visible in winter.

I probably pass +200 cherry trees between workplace and home which are marked to be removed. Most of them dead standing. for at least 3 years...

Well.... There is no company who is interested in actually removing them. Probably as state is not offering enough cash for the job.

I do know one thing... anybody trying to remove a tree, even fallen down branches will have about 15min to get out of the place before police will turn up to give a nice fine which for sure is 10 times more than the value as the firewood.

Here no cutting allowed. Even as an owner of any tree bigger diameter as 15'' you will need written permission of the forrestry administration, local council and building office before you can remove it.....
:jawdrop:


It is that strict and administrative that i know of companies having about 100acres of forest (in which their breeding halls are located) non maintained for at least 18 years. It is for them now too expensive to have a company cleaning up this mess of wildgrow and despite majority of the people heating with wood and willing to cut out their firewood they cant get the permission to allow non-pro cutting....


sad sad sad

That is sad! Where is Dolany? (state and/or nearest city that a canuck would recognize )

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

That is sad! Where is Dolany? (state and/or nearest city that a canuck would recognize )

I'd settle for knowing the COUNTRY!

 

[tatra805]

OK, maybe i should work a little on my profile.....



Europe

Slovak Republic (next to Czech Republic, you know the guys from Budweiser)

Dolany : 30km out of Bratislava at the Carpatian ''mountains''

Center of the new europe, or at least not far off.

Slovakia comes from a communistic regime 18 years ago, so yes part of Eastern Europe, and i noticed that a lot of things are still run in the old style administration. A lot of non important things (cutting trees for example) did not see the new regime trends yet.

So no company is clearing these trees as the state company that had to do this in the past does not exist anymore.... etc


:monkey:

 

[cjcocn]

Interesting.

I sure am glad that getting firewood is a whole lot easier for me!

 

[splittah]

IMO just because a local governing authority has an "easement" ( I have never heard it termed "public") as the way I understand it, my easement from the town on my culvert that goes under my driveway is: it only allows the town to come onto my property to work on the culvert, it does not allow joe blow from down the street to do so.

The easement from the town here on roadway is 25 feet from the center, the chance that trees will ONLY be dropped in that zone is small, therefore at some point you are in fact stealing my wood. Just because some town or state or city has an easement for utility work or drainage work, it is STILL my land, not the towns. The easement just gives them the right to come onto my property for maintenance or work in the easement area.

That being said, Why then would you think it is ok to come onto MY property be it be 10 feet from the roadside ot 2 feet and take something that does not belong to you?? If someone does that here on my land even 1 foot from the road I would be down there giving them crap for sure.


EDIT:

I just found this :

public easement n. the right of the general public to use certain streets, highways, paths or airspace. In most cases the easement came about through reservation of the right when land was deeded to individuals or by dedication of the land to the government. In some cases public easements come by prescription (use for many years) such as a pathway across private property down to the ocean. Beach access has been the source of controversy between government and private owners in many seaboard states.

sounds to me like a "public easement" only gives you the right to use the road no?




Dave

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

IMO

Well, let's just stop right there and clear up that misconception.


This is not just a matter of "IMO", it's a matter of law. Laws are different in different states, and even in different jurisdictions within a state.

In California, my property legally ended at the centerline of the street. However, from the inner edge of the sidewalk out to that centerline, I had nothing to say about how it was used. It was a public easement. Any Tom, Richard, or Harry who wanted to could drive down that street or walk on that sidewalk, and I could not do a thing about it. The city planted trees in the space between the sidewalk and the curb, and I could do nothing about it. Couldn't take them down, couldn't replace them with something else, nothing. BUT, I was held to a certain amount of responsibility for their well-being.

I don't like that arrangement, but that was the law THERE.

Here in Virginia, the law is different.

I've got about 10 feet of lawn between my property edge and the street. It's not my property. If somebody wants to park their car there, have a party there, whatever, I can't order them off. Why? Because it's not my property. If a utility cuts down a tree and piles it there, it's not mine. If somebody comes to pick it up before I get it, it's theirs. It's not mine. Why? Because it wasn't on my property.

That being said, Why then would you think it is ok to come onto MY property be it be 10 feet from the roadside ot 2 feet and take something that does not belong to you??

Well, here we have another misconception.

I never said it was okay to take something from your property, or anybody else's.

I said it was okay to take wood from the PUBLIC LAND. Here in Virginia, on the road in question, that right of way is owned by the Commonwealth of Virginia, not the property owner who happens to be in front of that stretch of road. It's not even an EASEMENT. It's public land. It's not owned by any private individual.

Here in Virginia, just because it's in front of your house doesn't mean you own it. If it's not your property, it's not your property.


Now, I understand that the laws may be different in your area. No problem - that's the way it works. You work with whatever the rules are where you are. If I lived in your area, I'd know the laws there and abide by them.


But I don't live there, I live here, and the laws here are different than the laws there.

Clear enough?

 

[splittah]

And I don't believe I singled you or anyone else out. I gave you "MY" situation and how "I" would react if it was done to "ME".

wow read the whole post please.