ROBOCLIMBER - New School

[M.D. Vaden]

People thought we couldn't fly once, or go to the moon. And I tend to think that people won't be displaced from climbing trees.

But have you seen the number of robots used for havesting and manufacture.

Do you think that it's possible to develop a robot climber...

ROBOCLIMBER

That could be programmed to properly prune trees?

1. Sonic device to perform sonar-like wood density tests.
2. xray device to detect cavities.
3. Laser cutting tool
4. Multiple mechanical arms for tools, rope and gear.
5. Cable and rope stored in spools for easy dispensing

In one way, it seems impossible, but considering the technology that's been accomplished lately, I can't say that it's impossible.

 

[RedlineIt]

Well, he'll have to pay his dues on the ground first, dragging branches, bucking limbs, humping wood and raking up!

Send one around my way, I'll test it for free!

RedlineIt

 

[9th year rookie]

The answer: YES.
The problem is that it would be cost prohibitive.
When I'm not climbing, I spend some time working for a company that develops robots for different applications. Most problems (treebots for example) can be solved, but who'll pay for it.....most clients are gov.

I subb'd out some stump grinding last week to a large firm w/a big remote control machine...seems like we're getting close anyway.

 

[John464]

while climbing trees has already started to be replaced by machines. In Europe, it is illegal to climb. All tree services use instead a spiderlift, jaraff, or bucket truck. A spider lift will save you from climbing most all trees. A jaraff can do ROW like a breeze. Since I got my spiderlift we've increased production and gotten the lift to about 90% of the jobs, which alllowed us to complete them more effficiently and safer than even the best of climbers could possibly do. The thing is machines dont get tired because they were up too many trees, they have mechanical failures that can completely shut down the job if you dont have a climber on the job. Therefore, I dont think climbing trees will ever be replaced completely, but instead used when necessary. The need for climbers will certainly diminish in years to come as technology keeps on advancing.


I hope it doesnt come to pushing a button and watching the robots complete the job. The best part of tree work is the hands on action of saws revving in your face and rigging critical pieces over obtacles that challenge the brain.

 

[jmack]

while climbing trees has already started to be replaced by machines. In Europe, it is illegal to climb. All tree services use instead a spiderlift, jaraff, or bucket truck. A spider lift will save you from climbing most all trees. A jaraff can do ROW like a breeze. Since I got my spiderlift we've increased production and gotten the lift to about 90% of the jobs, which alllowed us to complete them more effficiently and safer than even the best of climbers could possibly do. The thing is machines dont get tired because they were up too many trees, they have mechanical failures that can completely shut down the job if you dont have a climber on the job. Therefore, I dont think climbing trees will ever be replaced completely, but instead used when necessary. The need for climbers will certainly diminish in years to come as technology keeps on advancing.


I hope it doesnt come to pushing a button and watching the robots complete the job. The best part of tree work is the hands on action of saws revving in your face and rigging critical pieces over obtacles that challenge the brain.

holy c thankgod we aint in europe

 

[maxburton]

I don't know about all of Europe, but in Germany people still climb all over the place. Here's why some of those thing wouldn't work, either now or ever:

Laser cutting tool: A laser is a beam of light, so it would cut through the wood (eventually) and then keep going to whatever is behind it and cut that too and so on until there was nothing in the way for a long distance. Also, lasers use huge amounts of power, more than you could put in a battery. And, they're hot! There would probably be fire issues.

A climbing robot: The most advanced robots today can barely handle stairs. They also weigh many hundreds of pounds. It'll be a good long while before anyone can come up with something that could climb a tree. Artificial intelligence technology is nowhere near what it would have to be for a robot to have even limited automation in a setting like that.

Some day I'm sure robotics will be advanced enough to build something like that. But would it be more effective than some other simpler device, like a crane-mounted cutting/grabbing tool? I don't think so.

 

[John464]

I don't know about all of Europe, but in Germany people still climb all over the place. Here's why some of those thing wouldn't work, either now or ever:

Laser cutting tool: A laser is a beam of light, so it would cut through the wood (eventually) and then keep going to whatever is behind it and cut that too and so on until there was nothing in the way for a long distance. Also, lasers use huge amounts of power, more than you could put in a battery. And, they're hot! There would probably be fire issues.

ya not all of Europe, but it's a growing policy over there. Making climbing illegal due to the available equipment that makes tree care much safer and more productive.


and instead of the lazer we now have the jaraff. http://www.davey.com/cgi-bin/displayContent.pl?type=section&id=365 It still needs some improvement such as a camera that sees up close when you are making the 75ft cuts from the ground and a boom that not only telescopes, but articulates, pivots and bends in many ways that it would be possible to use for tight spots such as dead wooding. Advancing the machine to do this is already in the beginning stages of R&D.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Artificial intelligence technology is nowhere near what it would have to be for a robot to have even limited automation in a setting like that.

This is the crux, the decision making needs would crash any AI available today. They still compute in a lineier fashion, some use of probability algorithyms allows it to prune low probability choices, but they cannot have intuitive leaps as we do.

Anyone who has trained a brick-headed moron can understand.

A look at the DARPA unmanned truck challenge that has been going on for the past several years highlights this. They can just now manuver winding roads with no other traffic.

 

[woodchux]

A climbing robot: The most advanced robots today can barely handle stairs. They also weigh many hundreds of pounds. It'll be a good long while before anyone can come up with something that could climb a tree. Artificial intelligence technology is nowhere near what it would have to be for a robot to have even limited automation in a setting like that.

They already have small robots that can climb trees and brick walls.

Check out the video. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7513941146621127903&q=robot+climbing&hl=en

 

[M.D. Vaden]

This is the crux, the decision making needs would crash any AI available today. They still compute in a lineier fashion, some use of probability algorithyms allows it to prune low probability choices, but they cannot have intuitive leaps as we do.

Anyone who has trained a brick-headed moron can understand.

A look at the DARPA unmanned truck challenge that has been going on for the past several years highlights this. They can just now manuver winding roads with no other traffic.

I was hinting at overcoming the decision obstacle in my opening.

If the machines could use a sonic device to test wood density, and video laser equipment for diameter, it's possible that a robot could detect weak areas that an arborist couldn't see. It could exceed an arborist's intuition through way of facts.

For foliage removal, the robot could use a photo image ahead of time to ball-park foliage density, and compare that information to limb sizes removed: keeping canopy thinning to less than 20% if needed.

I'd like to see a university take-on the project to design one, just to see if it could be done. To actually make a machine that could scale, prune and descend.

 

[maxburton]

The Jaraff is neat, but limited. There's a buzzsaw on the end of that boom, and the cuts can be pretty harsh. I'd also imagine that it's tough to get the location right watching from the cab. As I mentioned in another thread, there's a fellow in Ireland with a custom-made articulating crane with a hydraulic chain saw and a grabber on the end. It can cut off branches and carry them to the ground, or onto a truck. He said the modifications cost about 100 grand.