roots compartmentalizing?

[dbeck]

MM had made a comment on another thread about roots compartmentalizing. For some reason, I don't recall root being able to compartmentalize. Maybe it's something else...
Who's rusty on roots? Let's discuss...

 

[jbw]

dbeck,
as far as my knowledge extends, roots would need to compartmentalize or we wouldn't be able to dig a tree and transplant it. the roots would simply decay and become useless.
jbw

 

[dbeck]

?

Like I said, for some reason...What I ws thinking of was that roots have no pith. Seems silly that I would relate that to compartmentalization...it was early
Any other root discuccion would be good though, roots are too often overlooked.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

ive not had much dealings with roots but was told that if you root prune you should cut them back as you wuold a branch ie too a growing point..most of my root pruning is carried out bye the vermeeer 252 lol [ if you cut back roots too a growing point i take it is so they codit ]

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The efemeral roots are not too resistant, the fibrouse ones are more so and the Firs Order Roots and the sub soil stump area are the most decay resistant parts of the tree. I've come across U. americana sstums cut down 40 some odd years ago, there are some of them in city areas, covered up, that are just starting sink in.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by ROLLACOSTA
[ if you cut back roots too a growing point i take it is so they codit ]

They'll codit anywhere; just cut out the damaged tissue.

Branches can codit at nodes with no laterals but that's another thread...

 

[xtremetrees]

Do roots have lenticles for the exchange of gases. Or is it only the parts of a tree above the surface that do this for the trees?
O2 is below ground thou so they should do this subterreinan to.
I know that roots have meristematice zone but they dont call it a apical bud instead it is refered to as the root cap. Does the tree react below ground as it does above it. From what Guy says it proforms CODIT.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Yes the fine roots have gas exchange organs, though i cannot remeber what they are called.

Here is a search on Root Growth, I could not find an organ diagram in a few different iterations of the search.

http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/search/web/tree+root+growth

 

[xtremetrees]

Thanks for the spur JP.
Still searching but this reminded me of how a supple blade of grass can break thru asphault .

"In response to increased compaction, roots thicken in diameter (31,53). Compaction also forces roots to generate increased turgor pressures concentrated farther toward the root tip, to lignify cell walls quicker behind the growing root tip, and to utilize a shorter zone of elongation (7). Thicker roots exert more force and penetrate farther into compacted soil areas (31). As soil penetration resistance increases in compacted soils, roots thicken to minimize structural failure (buckling), to exert increased force per unit area, and to stress soil just ahead of the root cap to allow easier penetration

Tree roots are kick butt.
Up rootin a house near you!

 

[xtremetrees]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
Firs Order Roots and the sub soil stump area are the most decay resistant parts of the tree.

Big money pulp factories will hire dogs to find stumps.!

No kidding these dogs are trained to sniff the ground and find fat lightered stumps.
Dog finds "x" amount of stumps they spend big money to harvest the area just for stumps. Fat lightered, kindlin stumps you know very volitale stuff.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

Originally posted by xtremetrees

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
Firs Order Roots and the sub soil stump area are the most decay resistant parts of the tree.

Big money pulp factories will hire dogs to find stumps.!

No kidding these dogs are trained to sniff the ground and


ive known of a few DOGS that have found stumps [ones ive missed] after ive been too there house too do stump grinding

 

[xtremetrees]

Let me plaguerize from the ISA certification book that Tobe and company sold me back in 93'.

It's from the first chapter named "Tree biology"
Interesting I figured roots to be in the tree soil relations but noooo...

" The roots of trees serve 4 primary functions: anchorage, storage, absorption and conduction.
Larger roots are similar to the trunk and branches in structure. The main functions of large roots are anchorage and conduction. Absorbing roots are the small, fibbrous, primary tissues that grow at the ends of the main, woody roots. The absorbing roots have epidermal cells that are modified into root hairs, which aid in the uptake of water and minerals. As with shoot tips, root tips contain a meristematic zone, where the cells divide and grow in length."

now wheather the cells and elongate and shorten like in above ground parts as evident in growth rings I dont know.? Are the roots affected by environmental stimuli? I assume they are and the tree reacts in whole to the stimulus. But do the roots act like the leaves when adverse conditions impact the organism.

That being said, the leaves acting as transpiration pull of water and nutrients for the plant should have a direct relationship with the roots.

Thanks for letting me rant and question

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Yes the fine roots are loosely anologous to leaves in that they are regularly shead and grown. In stressfull situlations they will be the first part of a live root that are shed, as leaves are dropped.

 

[dbeck]

looked in NTB breifly today and found info on roots creating barriers, but no mention of compartmentalizing or codit. I asked my coworker what he thought and he said it sounds like they compartmentalize. Then I thought, if there is no mention of walls, how can this be codit? Anyone?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Shigos has done a lot for the science of woody plant's, but he is not the best writer.

Look in Harris et al. next.

 

[Nickrosis]

Originally posted by xtremetrees
now wheather the cells and elongate and shorten like in above ground parts as evident in growth rings I dont know.? Are the roots affected by environmental stimuli? I assume they are and the tree reacts in whole to the stimulus. But do the roots act like the leaves when adverse conditions impact the organism.

That being said, the leaves acting as transpiration pull of water and nutrients for the plant should have a direct relationship with the roots.

Thanks for letting me rant and question

No, you're on track.

Meristematic tissue will produce cells that divide and differentiate each time into more specific cells. Very quickly, these cells go to work underground, elongating and forming fine absorbing roots. These parts of the roots are the largest share of the root surface area and do nearly all of the absorption.

Regarding environmental stimuli, it's all about the oxygen. That's why you'll find roots growing to insane depths in Texas where the soil is more porous and has more oxygen. See, in Wisconsin, we find that the ambient oxygen of 21% drops to 15% in the top layer of soil, plunging quickly to 8% to 4% and below.

At 15% oxygen, roots can grow and perform all their normal functions (barring localized soil compaction). Between 4-8% oxygen, roots can't grow, but they can stay alive. Below 4%, roots can't even metabolize the stored energy they have and soon die. Situations like this occur when you have season flooding like we're experiencing now. If the oxgygen is driven out of the soil for too long, roots starve or die out. Of course, this is all species dependent.

So, we had a long discussion in class this week about sewer pipes. If tree roots can grow five times the tree's height or more, you can have roots from all over the block inside a single pipe. This is again entirely driven by oxygen to get the roots down 12 feet to a pipe in the first place. Once there, the roots have a bonanza and take up the nutrients we flush.

:cliff notes:
If the conditions allow a root to grow, it will do so. These conditions hinge primarily on water availability (so they aren't desicated) and oxygen availability (so they can respire or use the photosynthetically manufactured sugars).

You're absolutely right about the consumption and transpiration of water in the leaves as being directly related to roots. If the water potential in the leaves is not extremely negative, there isn't the pressure to draw water up the stem. Unfortunately, we don't know all the reasons for water movement, but it should start to make more sense over time. I wait with rapt attention.

 

[dbeck]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
Shigos has done a lot for the science of woody plant's, but he is not the best writer.

I agree on the writing deficiency...try having that book as your text and Doc Miller for your professor. No diserespect to either, but at times, it was complicated to pull both of their thoughts together at exam time!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

But he made you think better!

 

[xtremetrees]

Nick wrote "If the water potential in the leaves is not extremely negative,"

Nick What is up with these cations I read about?
Positive charge negative charge its hard to comprehend that soil is got electricity in it.

Have any test been done where a person charges the tree/soil electricaly to make it grow better? A slight charge not a damaging one that lightening does.

I'd say 10-20 % of the lightening struck pines I've removed have been struck not once but twice. It seems that if there struck once with lightening , recover, they are struck again over and over until dead. I'm convinced that the charge from a bold of lightening does change the cation exchange rate. Because it changes the charge and attract other strikes. I know this is not nearly important to a trees growth as the avaiable o2 in the soil. Trees are so complicated i will never learn 1/10th of what I need to know to really care for them.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It's not so much electricity as how the particals are charged, how it will be attracted to other particals. One or two extra electrons is not the same as getting zapped while petting the kitty on a dry winter night.