Roots in sewer line...
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PA Plumber
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hope I don't get in trouble for a post here.
Sewer jet to cut roots. (will require repeated jetting over the years.)
Line pipe with another material to make it water tight. (As long as pipe is large enough. You could search online for pipe liners)
Replace broken/cracked sewer line.
I am not edumacated in chemical use.
Sewer jet to cut roots. (will require repeated jetting over the years.)
Line pipe with another material to make it water tight. (As long as pipe is large enough. You could search online for pipe liners)
Replace broken/cracked sewer line.
I am not edumacated in chemical use.
ms310
ArboristSite Operative
You are pretty much sol cut them out of the line or replace the system, even if you had something to kill the roots how long is it going to take before the effluent goes threw the pipe. Move feild, or move trees your only real choice here.
Only option is to remove old pipe and replace with new pipe with the ends of the new pipe as far away from the roots as possible in that they can and will get into any available crack or crevass at the pipe joint or coupling. Don't worry about the tree. It will recover. To jet the roots out means an ongoing process that just puts extra water and root mass in your septic system and thats no good either. For the record, I'm a licenced system installer and state certified septic system inspector in MA.
460magnumMOD
ArboristSite Lurker
I used to work for a very reputable septic company in CT before getting into the tree business recently. Along with installing systems and hooking up city sewer lines we also did all the maintenance on them. From electric snaking, high pressure water jetting, pumping and major repairs including pipe replacement. If it is a city sewer line that has roots in it the only fix is to replace. I've used and seen results with a product called root-x. But the root do come back. Hey its a great water source for them. Depending on the age of the line, and material its made from, jetting may or may not work. To clear roots properly the jetter will need to be pushing out around 2000 psi @ 56 or more gpm. to be effective. If the joints are week, or the pipe itself damaged or sub-par the pipe WILL blow apart.If it is a leach field pipe make sure it either is or is not absorbing current use. If it is absorbing use then remove tree, grind stump (DO NOT PULL roots entangled with pipe will pull pipe out) and leave the pipe alone. If they are clogging it out enough to disrupt the absorption then do the same as if it wasnt effecting it, but now add in jetting. I have personally seen great benefit from this. When the fields are jetted all the roots and all other sludge clogging it up are pulled back to the distribution box. You will also need a pumper on site to pump out the D-box while this is going on. Surprisingly, if this is done correctly, not that much excess water is forced into the system. The majority of the water is pulled back to the box. This is also an added benefit because while cleaning out the sludge you improve the flow in that trench tremendously. It's actually not a bad idea to jet out the pipe if it is absorbing use. And with jetting leach pipes you don't have worry as much about the jetter blowing through the pipe joints as much as with sewer lines, because effluent will be leaching out there anyhow where as sewer lines need to be water tight. As long as it doesn't blow through too badly. I don't know about where you live, but in CT you can't just replace just one trench pipe, the state health dept. would make you replace the entire system. Only minor repairs are allowed. But hey a few hundred in jetting leach fields is alot better than spending thousands on replacing the fields. If you've got more questions about it check out www.skipsseptic.com they've got some good info on there, and even if your not from our area you can call them and they would be happy to answer any questions you have, just ask for Tom or Jon. Very knowledgeable guys(my old boss's)
A. Stanton
Addicted to ArboristSite
I saw a project on This Old House where they relined the sewer line with a new pipe, without digging up the old pipe. They were also experiencing problems with the pipe due to it being made of clay and tree roots nearby.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
The chemical is copper sulphate, it works id the intrusion is not too big, but as stated, you will have to repeat in regular cycles. Route the pipeout and pour the chemical down, then every 4-6 months pour more down.
Replace the pipe.:deadhorse:
Anybody use root barriers? Obviously this would take digging a trench - but I was thinking if you replace the pipe you could line the new trench with root barrier and not have to remove the tree. Dumb idea?
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Not dumb, but not thought through.
Trees invade sewer laterals because there is a leak. The biggest limiting factor for root propigation is free O2, theen H2O, then nutrients. At thee ddepth of most laterals, the O2 is low enough that most roots are secondaries (sinkers) with ephemeral absorbative structure. You find these especially in soil profiles that are deep, and prone to cycles of saturation and drying.
Say there is a crack in the pipe, or the old clay ones have a poorly laid seam, then you have a nutrient rich plume of aerated water into wich the roots will grow, following it to the source. Hydrotropism.
If you replace the pipe with plastic, then the neeed for barriers is eliminated.
Rookie1
Addicted to ArboristSite
As said Copper Sulfate. When I was a kid we moved into an old farmhouse that had a dozen huge,now huger 30 years later,Sycamore trees. In the basement next to sewer cleanout in floor was a mason jar full of blue crystals with a piece of paper with dates when it was dumped in. Prevoius owner did it every month. I think all it does is kill the "hair roots" not the big ones. Also do it at night before bed so you dont wash it out into the sewermain.One more note I know Old man who works at funeral parlor and dumps Copper Sulfate every week or roots plug sewer. He says its because the dump blood dowm drain and trees like it.
Thanks: I know that roots will not penetrate a pipe for "no good reason" but that they only exploit cracks (i.e. trees get the blame for exposing a pre-existing problem). That is kinda why I asked with the presupposing that the pipe would be replaced. Where I am ignorant is: how likely is new pipe to develop cracks that the roots will also penetrate. I like to help people figure out ways to keep trees (that are worth keeping anyhow...if it is a previously topped siberian elm or silver maple cut away!). My question came about as a way to help the homeowner be able to keep the tree. I can see where they want the tree removed when they get a $8,500(?) estimate for repairing the lines. Lining that new trench suddenly seems like a cheap way to feel OK about keeping the tree without worring about it destroying that repair job.
PA Plumber
Addicted to ArboristSite
Installed properly, there shouldn't be any place for the roots to get into the new sewer lateral. In our area, an air test of 5 lbs. for 15 minutes in put on the new lateral, including the new connection point to the existing stub.
Then, its a matter of using appropriate materials to back fill, properly bed, and cover the new pipe.
So you know it is good when it is installed (based on pressure test). How long should that be expected to last? (Not arguing...just asking 'cause I don't know). Is it realistic to say if installed properly that it will go 15-20 years under normal conditions without new cracks? If so, then that answers my question - root barrier would be a total waste of money.
Rookie1
Addicted to ArboristSite
Basically years ago builders used clay tiles for sewer.Even if they were tarred together eventually some of the joint would fail letting in roots. Now plastic pipe is used with glued joints,that I doubt would eve fail if primed and glued right. As PA Plummer said pipe needs good bed and backfill to keep it supported. Short of an earthquake or crazy sinkhole or other crazy ground issue it should last forever. Ive seen trenches dug right past trees,new pipe laid,and no probs whatsoever. I would have no problem telling homeowners to put in plastic and forget about it.Oh and make sure there are proper cleanouts also. Just in case....... 
PA Plumber
Addicted to ArboristSite
Properly installed, it should go at least that long. The weak point of the whole system is where it connects to the terra cotta/cast iron pipe into the tank. If possible, I would run new pipe into the house and make the connection in the basement/crawlspace on the high end, inside.
There is some disagreement on SDR 35 verses sch. 40. The 35 can flex and bend more and usually there are gasketed joints/fittings. The joints/fittings for schedule 40 are usually glue and don't do as well where there is settling around the new pipe. This is one reason why bedding and the use of proper fill material is important.
PA Plumber
Addicted to ArboristSite
Basically years ago builders used clay tiles for sewer.Even if they were tarred together eventually some of the joint would fail letting in roots. Now plastic pipe is used with glued joints,that I doubt would eve fail if primed and glued right. As PA Plummer said pipe needs good bed and backfill to keep it supported. Short of an earthquake or crazy sinkhole or other crazy ground issue it should last forever. Ive seen trenches dug right past trees,new pipe laid,and no probs whatsoever. I would have no problem telling homeowners to put in plastic and forget about it.Oh and make sure there are proper cleanouts also. Just in case.......
Don't forget about Marburg. That stuff is miserable to work with. I'm not sure that is the correct name. Would remind a person of rolled tar paper. Although, not nearly as sturdy.
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auger it
In this area they just auger them out. You can get a plumber or rent a machine. Sort of a 2 man job. If it is a 4 inch clay line you want to start with a 2 inch bit then go up until you can get a 4 inch bit through it. This may need to be redone every 6 months or so. It is not always successful but it is the cheapest fix....a jetter etc. great idea but here a jetter would get $1000 to come out. Some of the chain plumbers guarantee not to plug for a year or something like that. Whatever you do don't let a plumber come out and run a 2 inch bit through it and be done. This is easy but you have effectively poked a 2 inch hole through a bunch of debris roots etc. and it will be a very short term solution.
In this area they just auger them out. You can get a plumber or rent a machine. Sort of a 2 man job. If it is a 4 inch clay line you want to start with a 2 inch bit then go up until you can get a 4 inch bit through it. This may need to be redone every 6 months or so. It is not always successful but it is the cheapest fix....a jetter etc. great idea but here a jetter would get $1000 to come out. Some of the chain plumbers guarantee not to plug for a year or something like that. Whatever you do don't let a plumber come out and run a 2 inch bit through it and be done. This is easy but you have effectively poked a 2 inch hole through a bunch of debris roots etc. and it will be a very short term solution.
Jetting the roots out only sends them to the septic tank or further down the municipal line to possibly clog later. If it is a private septic system, owned and maintained by the property owner, replacement of which would be in the thousands or tens of thousands depending on site conditions, sending a power jetted root mass along with the sudden influx of water to the septic tank does the system no good. Copper sulphate is also a toxic chemical to benificial nutrients and bacterias in the septic environment that will die if too much or too frequent application is made to the system and a dead system is just that, one that will fail, needing replacement. And even if nothing bad happens as a result of these actions, it will become an ongoing issue that will need constant cre and monitoring and will only get worse over time. Best plan is to replace the pipe and be done with it.:deadhorse:
fernco
They sometimes excavate carefully then hand dig where the fernco goes and then dump quikrete around the joint so no settling occurs.
They sometimes excavate carefully then hand dig where the fernco goes and then dump quikrete around the joint so no settling occurs.
