Rope burn from pre tensioned port a wrap

[CoreyTMorine]

We used a winch to pretension the port a wrap mark 1 last week. It worked well but the rope twisted while it was being tightened up, this caused the ropes tail to wrap around the port a wrap a bunch of times. This became a problem when Kevin started to untie the wraps while the line was loaded, they were all buggered up, so he was right on top of the device trying to get things untangled. Long story short, the rope surged while he was messing with it and burnt his hand along the palm.

Could’ve been much worse! But he did end up going to the E-room and taking a few days off. Workman’s comp and insurance seem like such awful expenses, but it sure is a nice feeling knowing that a guy who showed up and did his best to help me out will be taken care of.

We have started connecting the port a wrap to the pintal hook on the truck or tractor, just open the gate and drop it right on. This prevents any such twisting.

One of life’s little reminders, stay safe.

 

[BostonBull]

Corey,

WHat kind of rope are you using?

If you are using the winch to "lift" a piece while using a portie, your asking for trouble. This device is meant for lowering not raising.

I am still a litle confused as to how you preset the rope and it twisted up....or did the prt a wrap itself twist?

 

[CoreyTMorine]

The rope was Yale 9/16” double braid bull rope.

The type I Port A Wrap (prt) was fastened to the cable (swedged steel less than ½”) coming from my tractor winch (9000 pound hydraulic). There was about 20' of cable out. The bull rope ran through a rigging block about 45’ up in the tree, from there the working end came down about 6’ and out at a 45 degree angle where it was tip tied to a 6 or 700 # leader. The standing part came down through a tail block at the trees base, and then over to the prt at which point the bull rope was made fast. After tip tying the leader I came down 30’ and cut it up, before cutting the leader loose I had the ground guys tension the line. Once it was upright and near the rigging block I cut it off. The work lifted slightly and gently swung around until it was directly under the block.

pwheew, :monkey: that is a simple thing that is tough to explain.

Then I came down to oversee things on the ground. Not normal procedure but I underbid this job, rather than rush things in an attempt to finish on time I decided to schedule an extra day to try some things out. Anyway, I get down and the prt is all twisted, I guess because of the cable lay. So we back the tractor up until the work is on the ground. Figuring that most of the weight is off of the bull rope Kevin starts to unravel the twist, he gets the twist all out then goes on to take a wrap off. Well the wraps were bound up on each other and when he pulled them apart the rope surged. It drew his hand into the prt (normally the guys stay at least 3' away from the prt, but because Kevin was untieing the twisted line he was in close.) he immediately jumped back and stuck his hand under his armpit, he was kind of dancing around on the front lawn. I thought for sure he broke or dislocated one or more fingers; it was sickening kind of scary. As all turned out he only burned his palm, he was not wearing gloves and is mostly a pretty lucky guy, although he is just getting back to work after a bad saw cut this past winter; ????ty lot clearing job on a bad hill and greasy snowy leaves everywhere, not my show. :help:

So Kevin went home and took a couple of days to heal up. And now we connect the prt directly to the pintle hook on the tractor so that it cannot twist, this works a good deal better and we can now use the winch to pull the work away from the tree.

Why do you think it is unsafe to use the prt as a static tie off? Mine didn’t come with any instructions but it seems to work really well in such a role. I’ve often seen people use a prt to tie off; wrap as normal and then take a few half hitches, just like on a cleat. And as for lift the prt is just a link in the chain, it doesn’t matter from which side of the chain the force is coming from.

Thanks for taking the time to ask, its always good to have another set of eyes around a problem.

 

[joesawer]

IMO using the port a wrap for a tie off is OK. I sounded like you where trying to winch through it in your first post.
Your problem came from fastening to the length of cable (as you figered out).
Be careful tieing to the pintle hitch. I have seen ropes squeeze out between the bottom hook and the top lock more than once.

 

[CoreyTMorine]

IMO using the port a wrap for a tie off is OK. I sounded like you where trying to winch through it in your first post.

OK, yeah that would be sub par, was that also your concern Bull?

Your problem came from fastening to the length of cable (as you figered out).Be careful tying to the pintle hitch. I have seen ropes squeeze out between the bottom hook and the top lock more than once

I’ve only seen that happen in my nightmares. I always figured that so long as the rope or whatever is pulling down or straight out of the hook it would not ride up and over. That is part of what the tail block in my rigging scheme accomplishes, to keep the bull rope running along the ground, this in turn keeps the prt seated low in the hook. Another point of note, the prt doesn’t have to be tied to the pintle, the tie off ring fits right over the hook.

Anyway, under what circumstances did you see a rope come out of a pintle hook. That could be so very bad. I usually wedge my pull trees just for cheap insurance, but you still never know what would happen if the pull line came undone in the middle of an operation.

Thanks for perspective Joe, and for being polite.

 

[BostonBull]

Yes it did sound like you were trying to use a prot a wrap as a GRCS or similiar.

You say you were using a Type I port a wrap. This is the old style correct? I dont like them and feel they are dangerous compared to the type II new style.

Another problem may have come from the STEEL winch line which naturally has twists in it.

Glad everyone is OK!

 

[CoreyTMorine]

I think that the newer ones commonly seen in the trade magazines are type III Port-a–Wraps; I don’t know what a type II is. Anyway, I agree that the Newer model is a better design, but it is less intrinsic, I’ve seen ground guys do all sorts of ridiculous things when given a bull rope and a type III PAW . It is however on my list of stuff to buy.

 

[joesawer]

Anyway, under what circumstances did you see a rope come out of a pintle hook. That could be so very bad. I usually wedge my pull trees just for cheap insurance, but you still never know what would happen if the pull line came undone in the middle of an operation.

Thanks for perspective Joe, and for being polite.[/QUOTE]

You are very welcome.
The first time I saw it happen was pulling a red oak stub over with a bucket truck. It was about 4.5' dbh and about twenty feet tall. A standing boline was tied in the pull rope, it was getting dark enough that visibilty was fading fast, 3 men on OT where eating up my percantage, and the rope squeezed through the gap in the pintle. Fortunatly no bad results, but only good fortune can be given credit. The knot hit the tree beside the sawmans head.
I have had good results throwing a clove hitch around the lower hook and then tieing the tail around the square tubing that supported the hitch, as always, avoiding any and all sharp edges.