Rope vs Steel Skidder Cable

[Termite]

This is my first post in the logging forum. I am not a logger. Well only on my own property. I do have friends who log but don't use computers. Anyway, Slamm mentioned he used a rope instead of steel cable on his 540 skidder. Does anyone else use rope. I PM'ed Slamm but he's been off line. My logger friend is in need of new cable and was interested the practicality of rope.

 

[epicklein22]

You are thinking of Amsteel blue. Supposedly stronger than cable..... I don't know anyone around here using it.

 

[northmanlogging]

the ahmsteel blue is the wire replacement I've most heard of... never used, probably never will, (mostly cause I'm stubborn, and cheap)

Its apparently lighter, and just as strong as steel, and they say its got as much friction resistance? not sure how much of any of that I believe (well it is lighter). The problem I have with it is its really Gods ****** expensive, and I'm not convinced about its friction resistance, or how it would behave if caught in the fairleads or with some choker sliders hanging off it.


The guys who run it love it...

 

[Slamm]

Amsteel Blue is the only thing I will use or would use and once you use it .............. even if you have to pay for it, you won't ever go back to steel cable, its just too hard on the machine and the operator to be an efficient choice. Steel is a cheap choice, but not the efficient choice, and efficiency is key to making money in logging, because you can't make your money faster and easier with the Amsteel.

For a first time buyer there is really no risk other than what's in your head about the Amsteel. Its stronger than steel cable, its so light it floats on water, it takes maybe 15 minutes with a pocket knife and some electrical tape to splice it. You never can ruin a whole length of rope with a break in the middle or fraying ............ there isn't any fraying of the rope to cut your body parts, blah, blah, blah.

Here is the CON:

Its initial cost is more than steel.

This offsets that CON:
Over its long lifetime, its cheaper than steel or at absolutely worst its the same price with regards to its life span and being able to splice it to a newer shorter length.

Its just a no brainer to anyone that uses it for pure cable skidding.

Sam

 

[Slamm]

This is my first post in the logging forum. I am not a logger. Well only on my own property. I do have friends who log but don't use computers. Anyway, Slamm mentioned he used a rope instead of steel cable on his 540 skidder. Does anyone else use rope. I PM'ed Slamm but he's been off line. My logger friend is in need of new cable and was interested the practicality of rope.

I pm'd you my phone number for your friend to call several days ago.

Sam

 

[eagle nest]

Hi would anybody have any pictures of the amsteel blue rope spooled on to the winch on a cable machine that they are using. Thank you.

 

[Slamm]

Read about it on this page of my thread:

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/147985-2.htm

Here is some more that I wrote:

Amsteel vs Swedged cable in the abrasion department only, would not win any battles, but if that was the only way you measured a skidder cable's ability to ease your life then I think you would be short changing the concept.

In a situation like a winch on a grapple skidder ...... like my 540B Grapple. I will probably always, use steel cable, because in the few instances that I do have to use the cable on the grapple skidder, the cable will be scraping against the grapple and it is not cost effictive per use.

But for a cable only skidder, it is wonderful. There is a study around:

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~jnz6/Synrop...nch Line.pdf

http://www.orosha.org/pdf/grants/osu...potentials.pdf

In these reports or studies, they expound on the benefits to the human body, as in less fatigue and such, and those attributes are great, but the real benefit from running Amsteel is to the skidder itself. You see the amsteel after it has been pulled and stretched a few times, has a few very nice benefits.

1. You can just drop logs of any size down and never worry about crow's nesting of the cable of any kind. This is because it is so light that the winch spool doesn't have enough inersia to keep on spinning, after the log is on the ground, or it doesn't have the spring that steel does. I don't believe in the spring part though, because when it breaks it is a little more exciting than a steel cable in my opinion.

2. This second benefit is directly related to the first one. When you get to your next log and pull out some cable to attached to the next log. When you start to pull you don't have to clutch the machine forward to take out the crows nest and relay the cable correctly, so as to not damage the steel cable. You see the Amsteel doesn't seem to care how it is sitting on the winch spool, and only maybe twice in 2 years have I had to hook it up to a tree and pull it loose, because it got stuck within itself, like steel will do if not properly respooled each time.

3. The above two benefits take a lot of stress and abuse off of the transmission and winch, either for dry runs of pulling forward to de-spool the cable and then respool it correctly, not to mention the time wasted for the above practices that must be adhered to with steel cable or your steel cable will be broken by the day's end, or seriously damaged and won't last the week.

4. Another thing is the practice of dropping the logs, by releasing the winch and then quickly re-engaging the winch brake to prevent the crows nesting. This re-application of the winch brake is completely not needed anymore, and that is with the drag set to complete free-spool, for easier pulling out of the cable.

Also it is extremely light, you can pull out 130 feet and hold the whole rope up level with your shoulder with one hand, with steel cable you cannot hold 40' up off the ground, LOL, so it just drags around behind you, through the woods.

Splicing this stuff is very easy, a little kid could do it. Just figure the first splice will take 1 hour and there will be cussing, while you read the directions and then the next splice will take about 15 minutes, and the next one 10 minutes and then about 5 or less minutes after that, and it is a peaceful operation. Not hammering some cable cutter that may or may not cutt it off in a few whacks. Then finding something to anchor the knot with and in and out of the skidder several times trying to get the anchor knot correct and tight, then trimming the excess steel cable off later.

If you buy 100' feet of Amsteel and damage the rope in the middle, you can just splice it and move on. With Steel cable, that cable is now half the length and you have just wasted 50+ feet of cable, because you can't do a mid-splice. With Amsteel you would have only lost about 4' .... just enough to splice it again.

More feet of Amsteel will fit onto the same winch than the same claimed size of steel.

That is why I like it, and I feel its benefits far out weigh any negatives related to it.

My opinion,..............................




Okay I finally found the post, below is the page where I show how I install the Amsteel on a 540B skidder:

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/147985-27.htm

Sam

 

[northmanlogging]

I like that someone is finally willing to admit that it don't just "lay right down" when it breaks, if it stretches at all it will snap back... I wonder if the problem with cable supposedly snapping around is from the fiber core stuff? Personally never seen it happen with steel core cable.

Not to be a jerk but a determined guy/gurl could splice two pieces of cable back together, it just takes 20 some odd hours and allot of creative swearing... and you end up losing around 20 feet or so to do it where it will wind around the drum nicely... there is easier ways but they tend to do funny things on the winch drum and in the fair leads...

 

[Humptulips]

Assuming 3/4 or 5/8 cable you should be able to put a short splice in it and lose no more then 6 feet. Take maybe a half hour.
Have to say though I never heard of anyone long splicing cat lines.

 

[northmanlogging]

ah you read through the rambling... yes a short spice would work but it can put a funky bubble in yer line, not a big deal but still kind of a pain, less of a pain than a long splice in the end though...
the point is you can splice cable... the guys at the log shows do it in something like 5 minutes

 

[Humptulips]

5 minutes? Maybe an eye splice not a long splice. I think I would prefer a short splice over a long splice in a cat line. When's the last time you broke one in the middle though? Always been my experience they wear out on the end.

 

[redprospector]

5 minutes? Maybe an eye splice not a long splice. I think I would prefer a short splice over a long splice in a cat line. When's the last time you broke one in the middle though? Always been my experience they wear out on the end.

I don't remember ever breaking one in the middle. Like you said, always nibbling 5 or 10 foot off the end (now watch, the next three will break right in the middle).

Andy

 

[northmanlogging]

The log show dudes usually do an eye splice... the short splice I'm thinking of is basicaly two eye splices in parallel, a long splice involves winding individual strands along the length and tucking in some archaic series I never did understand real well, i.e. time consuming. Besides its the last few feet of a winch line that gets the most abuse anyway, that's why its more likely to break off there. If'n we where all more responsible... we would flip the winch line when it got to a "half life" and then abuse the other end until it falls off and worry about buying a new one then... but how often does that really happen.

Don't remember snapping a line in the middle but I imagine it would take some rather drastic circumstances to achieve that goal... I would think the choker would go first,

 

[Humptulips]

The log show dudes usually do an eye splice... the short splice I'm thinking of is basicaly two eye splices in parallel, a long splice involves winding individual strands along the length and tucking in some archaic series I never did understand real well, i.e. time consuming. Besides its the last few feet of a winch line that gets the most abuse anyway, that's why its more likely to break off there. If'n we where all more responsible... we would flip the winch line when it got to a "half life" and then abuse the other end until it falls off and worry about buying a new one then... but how often does that really happen.

Don't remember snapping a line in the middle but I imagine it would take some rather drastic circumstances to achieve that goal... I would think the choker would go first,

No, that is not a short splice. That would be a #### splice (the C word the ladies don't like to be called). A short splice is more like a long splice except you don't roll the strands out in pairs.
Three pairs at one end and three pairs at the other. I realize that is as clear as mud but I don't know how to explain it better.
Hmm, You split each end in two, 3 strands and 3 strands. Match the cores and roll the three strands from one end along with three from the other end down the line. Same with the ones you left behind.You end up, on each end with three strand passing the other three. Seperate them and cross them. Then you tuck them each three times and the tucks all come close together. Repeat on the other end.
Best I can do for explantion.

That archaic series of tucks you mentioned on a long splice is very simple really. Once the strands are crossed just remember you tuck the strand under the two strands the strand you are tucking comes out from between so strand you are tucking drive your spike under the two on either side of it. Poke it under with the lay not against.

Next lesson a rolled in long splice.:msp_scared:

 

[Guswhit]

View attachment 267314View attachment 267315View attachment 267316

I used the Amsteel Blus on my new skidder attachment I made. So far I think it is great! It is very lite when reeling it out for log hooks. Only could afford 100' this time, but don't really want to pull any farther.

 

[DavdH]

now that is a skid trail,

 

[Slamm]

View attachment 267314View attachment 267315View attachment 267316

I used the Amsteel Blus on my new skidder attachment I made. So far I think it is great! It is very lite when reeling it out for log hooks. Only could afford 100' this time, but don't really want to pull any farther.

What kinda end splice is that?

Do you have a metal guard on the inside of the eye? If so, its not really necessary, I've never broke one there. They always break where the end of the splice meets the main line again, but never at or around the eye itself, typicall 1 foot or fid length from the eye.

Sam

 

[Guswhit]

What kinda end splice is that?

Do you have a metal guard on the inside of the eye? If so, its not really necessary, I've never broke one there. They always break where the end of the splice meets the main line again, but never at or around the eye itself, typicall 1 foot or fid length from the eye.

Sam

The line came with a metal guard on the end. I did not see a reason to remove it. I just used a small clevis to attach one of my chokers.

 

[BERN-TIMBER]

Slamm, what size amsteel are you running? And after looking through some of your pics I cant tell what kind of mainline setup you are running. I looked in to rope a few different times but was always told by the dealers that it would not take the abuse of friction caused by running 5-6 sliders. I cut a variety of woods here in PA, from big logs that I can only grab one at a time to pulp in clearcuts where I haul as many as 8 sticks out. Do you run numerous slides and hook them up all at once or do you try to always straight line pull and limit the friction. Its nice when you fan a hitch out right to run cable out, hook up 5 or 6 and go. Id be upset burning holes through 4 dollar a foot rope.

 

[mad murdock]

How does the unimog do in the woods? How much can you drag at once?