Rope vs Steel Skidder Cable

[mad murdock]

Couple questions about the synthetic rope: 1. Did you have to polish the arch roller and fair leads to avoid abrasion? 2. Do you use the regular steel slides to attach the chokers to the mainline? 3.what kind of nubbin or feature do you use on the end?

 

[Guswhit]

How does the unimog do in the woods? How much can you drag at once?

I have not been out very much yet, only about 8-9 hours all together. So far it is doing better than I anticipated! I do have chains for the unimog but have not put them on or been out to the timber since it snowed this year. I only have one choker on my line and it is not a slider so I can not tell you how those work. A couple of my pulls have been logs in excess of 24 inches and been 35-40 feet long. I am able to get them pulled up to the back and then use my hydraulic sprague to lift the end up which gives me added traction and it has just walked right out. I do expect issues, like slippage once the snow is on hte ground but the logs should slide out and across the ground easier also. Broke a hydraulic line the other day and with the holidays here, I haven't had time to repair it yet. Not complaining, since I'm sure that the line was original equipment from 1984.

I work part time in a welding/fabrication shop also and my boss and myself fabbed my double roller sheave on the rear and I run no fairlead. The paint on them wore off in just a few feet of pulling. My line came equiped with an eye and metal guard in it that I just put a shackle in to attach the choker to.

 

[mad murdock]

Guamos for the feedback! Tules unimogs are neat machines. I have been thinking about switching to synthetic rope when it comes time to respool the mainline on my skidder. Looks like neat stuff. I wonder if anyone has ever setup a high lead operation with it? Oh the possibilities! With such a drastic weight reduction there are a lot of things you could do. I think all inwould need is 9/16" mainline for my gearmatic 8A winch on the old Garrett

 

[singinwoodwackr]

Couple questions about the synthetic rope: 1. Did you have to polish the arch roller and fair leads to avoid abrasion? 2. Do you use the regular steel slides to attach the chokers to the mainline? 3.what kind of nubbin or feature do you use on the end?

1, yes, burrs, nicks, etc will tear up the rope.

to the question of what happens when this stuff breaks...It does not just 'drop' in line; it will snap back directly to where it is tied in. Ie, if the break is near the winch the rest of the line will shoot directly back to the log and bunch up there. (got a vid of this somewhere...)

I've never used AMsteel for skidding but have used it in my truck winch for many years with great success for pulling logs and vehicle recovery. Break strength is a lot higher than standard steel cable, (ex: the 5/16" cable that came on my winch was rated @ 9800#. The same diameter Amsteel is 13,700#.) At 64,400# a 3/4" rope might be overkill.

A con that hasn't been discussed yet...extreme temps on the winch drum will melt the rope but this can be averted by splicing a high-temp resistant section for the first layer on the drum. I've only had this happen once when doing a lot of winching out under stress, never pulling in...has to do with the braking action of the Warn winch.

Anyone used this stuff as a choker?

Samson's site has all kinds of info including logging specific stuff.
Samson-The Strongest Name in Rope, AMSTEEL-BLUE


my .02

 

[056kid]

Stuff sounds excellent for farmer logging. Real pulling I think would render it useless.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

Stuff sounds excellent for farmer logging. Real pulling I think would render it useless.

If you are talking abrasion the issue isn't with soft dirt/grass, brush, etc. but with hard rock. Out here we have a lot of granite in the mountains so use a 10' nylon sleeve over the rope when pulling over rocks. Most recovery gear places sell winch lines with the sleeve.

 

[northmanlogging]

Nobody ever pays attention to the working limits of rope vs. cable, yeah yeah its supposed to break at such and such but its only safe to use up to x poundage, and there is a world of difference between the two.

Also all rope will stretch, and when it stretches its snaps back, cable will also stretch but noticeably less, and once it stretches it doesn't really snap back, its stays stretched for the most part, that's why old cable is so hard to splice.

In my limited experience with broken cable most of the snap back is do to the load put on it, not from the "rubber band effect" of the cable, in other words a lift tree, or a spar tree has a bit of bend under it when put under load, when that load is loosened abruptly, that energy is transferred into the loose end of the cable. A skidder would be the tires causing this, not the cable.

Granted this is mostly just observation on my part, but some of it comes from reading things like the machinery's handbook, and then doing the math, and doing every thing I can to see why stuff breaks and what I can do to prevent it... (kinda nutty like that...)

The simple fact that the space rope can't be used with a realistic fair lead is reason number one while I will probably never use it, that and its over priced.

 

[StihlKiwi]

Here's a paper on synthetic rope use in logging if anyone's interested

http://www.nzjf.org/free_issues/NZJF51_2_2006/4882A710-94A1-4548-AF63-A68333B5CDEF.pdf

 

[singinwoodwackr]

Here's a paper on synthetic rope use in logging if anyone's interested

http://www.nzjf.org/free_issues/NZJF51_2_2006/4882A710-94A1-4548-AF63-A68333B5CDEF.pdf

wow, good find. Have you seen anything newer? that thing is 7yrs old

 

[StihlKiwi]

Nobody ever pays attention to the working limits of rope vs. cable, yeah yeah its supposed to break at such and such but its only safe to use up to x poundage, and there is a world of difference between the two.

Safe working limit is typically 1/3rd of the breaking strain of a wire rope, allows for dynamic loading etc when in use

Also all rope will stretch, and when it stretches its snaps back, cable will also stretch but noticeably less, and once it stretches it doesn't really snap back, its stays stretched for the most part, that's why old cable is so hard to splice.

I thought UHMWPE rope (Amsteel etc) stretched less than the equivalent wire rope?

 

[northmanlogging]

Safe working limit is typically 1/3rd of the breaking strain of a wire rope, allows for dynamic loading etc when in use



I thought UHMWPE rope (Amsteel etc) stretched less than the equivalent wire rope?

working strength of most rope is 1-10th or 1-7th

the difference in the stretch factor is the synthetic stuff will return to its original length, where as steel once its stretched only returns a fraction of its original length. Allot has to do with core material, most cable these days is wire core, its pretty hard to compress steel. where with rope its a fiber core, very easy to compress, and then it bounces right back to where it started.

 

[StihlKiwi]

wow, good find. Have you seen anything newer? that thing is 7yrs old

I read that at least a year ago, and when I searched for more articles then I don't think I found anything. When I get back to my place with faster net I'll have another look, there's bound to be more studies on it.


I'm sure I've heard of synthetic rope being used as strawline but I can't think of where I came across that

 

[StihlKiwi]

Here's an article from Loggers World about a guy in Oregon running Amsteel. He seems pretty happy with it, wonder if he's still using it.

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~jnz6/Synrope_Research/Loggersworld/Loggers World Article September 2003.pdf