Rope Winch

[murphy4trees]

Rb and Kevin mentioned rope winches in another thread. I never used one. I think their primary use is in moving wood and brush in rough terrain... California hills for example. I rarely have much rough terrain to deal with... just back yards. And so I wonder what this tool could do to save time and effort on residential jobs.
Will I be glad I bought one or will it just take up space on the shelf?
A buddy of mine would like to see a system set up where climber can control his ascent using a winch. I wonder if something could be set up using an ascender or friction hitch with a micro-pulley.
So how much power do these winches have... what are the pros and cons.. etc?
Thanks and God Bless,
Daniel

 

[treeclimber165]

Only time I've ever used one was about 12 years ago, right after selling my lawn service. It was my first job working for another tree service, and the guy had one that we used a couple times. He used it to tension the rope on back leaners using a 3 to 1 and pulling the tail with the winch. He probably got close to 2000 lbs of pull on that tree. He also used it instead of a regular come-along when installing a cable in a tree.

I've never owned one, although wished I had one hundreds of times over the years. There always seems to be something else that I need more. It is one item that is definitely on my wish list, though.

It says you'd be better off using it on 3 strand or solid core ropes like Arbor-plex or True Blue. I have both these types of ropes, you can just buy one and send it to me for evaluation, Murphy.

 

[rbtree]

Simpson Winch folks recommend using 3 strand on the capstan for better holding power. I dont have any, but do have a 0.5" 10000 lb tensile double braid that works pretty well. If you fill the capstan with wraps, it will not slip if held tightly. In a steady pull situation, I'd guess that a SWL factor of 5-1 would be acceptable stress forces on the rope, so that would be 2000 lb of pull.

I have used it to be pulled up in a tree, have lifted appx 750 lb tree pieces off houses, tip tied and lifted a hung 90 foot, 17" dbh cherry til it could be cut off the stump then butt chunked down, used as quick lift for long limbs to get them onto a speed line. I used an old 1/2" Arborplex (too slippery) to pull a willow out of a lake, piece by piece. We had a redirect block up 10 feet, best we could achieve, still made it hard to get up the lakeshore.

For straight pull applications, a traditional wire rope winch would be better. But I know the Lewis winch is poor quality. I have seen two very high quality products, one of which is the Solo, whichj is not imported to NA. The other, at ~$1800, I have not wanted to spring the $ for.

I modified mine to allow it to be bi directional, however it is good to have a portawrap or other backup, as it doesnt work to well (motor shut off) as a lowering device. The wraps have locked up a couple times, which can be rather disastrous.

Graeme McMahon, the Aussie Euc man, has a device that rides along with you for tree ascension. but it is pricey.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

If anyone is going to use a capstan winch to move a person you should add some kind of rope brake. If for some reason the rope slips the person could fall.

The best backup is a seperate line that the person can attach to with a belay tool. I sure wouldn't advise any of the toothed ascenders!

Another, less than optimal, method would be to run the rope through a prusik minding pulley before it enters the winch. Add a klemheist or similar as the brake.

I sold my capstan to Roger becaues I find that I can do more with my ATV. From what Roger tells me, we both are better off. I recovered some cash and he added a useful tool to his livery. Roger, can you show us how you mounted your hot rodded 372 onto the winch? That must really haul some rope!

I can't even imagine how it would be easier to use the capstan over a come along when cabling.

Tom

Tom

 

[treeclimber165]

Sorry, guys. I was thinking of the rope puller as shown on page 53 of The Book (item 16071). Like a come-along but it uses your rope instead of cable.
I've never used a gas powered rope winch, although I had a 10 ton PTO powered winch on my boom truck with 5/8" steel cable.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've talked the GRCS up every chance I can get.

Simplest put, being able to add MA to rigging upwards or pulling trees over will decrease your time on site drasticly. or the regular gravatic rigging we use everyday, a lowered limb hangs up. Just add wraps rto the drum, lock off in the self tailing jaws, insert handle and raise limb up out of whatever is fouling it.

Then there are speed line controls, snaking brush (better with a gas drill though) loading logs into trucks.

Once you have it you start putting your mind to using it more and more.

 

[Nickrosis]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
I've talked the GRCS up every chance I can get.

I noticed.

 

[rborist1]

:Eye:

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i used a capstan winch a few times. Best trick was to running bowline the ends of some long branches about 50' off the ground, with a throw line. Then i rigged the butt end in the tree and cut, as they chose that limbs line to draw with the winch. This was fron the backyard, next to the pool fenced off, thick grass and plants. They just drew the limbs over the house, wires, fence, front yard right to the delivery point. It would have been very tedious and riskier any other way except crane methinx, especially threading the limbs outta the yard after missing room built of screen.

When i hurt my leg once and couldn't talk one of my heroes through finishing a few things, so i was drawn up into the tree with this. On the pulley re-direct bertween climber and pull (in my case truck ); this is where i might use a fig. 8, and load the pulley close to the truck and adjust out under tension to get exactly under climber so s/he is pulled vertically up and not at a slant.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've been hauled back up a tree on the GRCS a number of times. Usualy a to retrieve the block on a removal, then block or chunk it down. Even using it as a belay while gaffing up is very nice.

 

[rbtree]

Tom,

I use an 034 Super on the Simpson, plenty of guts. We haven't used it for a few months, but I'm sure it's time will come again soon.

The first and only time I was yarded into a tree was the very first time we used it, just testing it out. I had an overhead block set, tied off at base, with lifeline through it, through a block at base of tree, so winch was used in horizontal aspect. I self belayed myself with pulley slack tender and Vt. Same setup as the spyder's graphic... My friend Terry, who bought the new one from me, has used it a few times for entry. Did you see Graeme's DVD of his winch? I missed it...

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I've got one of the rope come alongs but rarely use it. My cable comealong is stronger and easier to set up in 1:1 and 2:1 too.

Roger, I did see a pic of Graeme's power winch. There are plans available to make a unit for a unit like this. The cavers have been known to use a unit like this.

There have been a couple of times that we've used the ATV to hoist the climber. When we do, the climber is using a setup like Spidey diagrammed. Also, the line is attached to the front bollard on the ATV and the driver backs up so that the climber is in full view all of the time.

Tom

 

[Graeme]

If anyone would want me to I will post a pic of "Scotty".

Graeme

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Where's Scotty?


Post a bunch of pics. Where can Scotty be purchased?

Tom

 

[Greg]

I have a "rope puller" come-a-long type rope winch made by Massadam(?). It cost about $60 and was worth every penny. It is a great poor mans winch. I don't use it a lot because it is a pain to thread the rope through it and it is slow. You need 1/2 3 strand, even though I have used arbor plex which works pretty well, and have tried double braid which slips. I try not to use it much because it is so slow, but on many occasions it has been a real life saver when pulling over leaners. It is good for about 1500lbs according to the company. This little tool has saved me on several jobs where without it I would have been climbing and chuncking wood. I would not even consider using it for a lot of the applications mentiond in the forum, and it comes no where close to being a GRCS. Being able to lay a tree v.s climbing and taking peices is worth $60 on one job alone .
--I want a GRCS!!!!
Greg

 

[murphy4trees]

I've seen ther GRCS in action... very impressive.. I Am just waiting for a good excuse to buy one..
I've got and use the rope come along and it's a very handy device...
They both have their uses and the chainsaw powerhead powerred rope winches are a much differernt animal.
So any more suggestions on their pros and cons and tips for setup and usage would be appreciated.
Maybe a residential guy like me is better off with an ATV. Time for a new thread perhaps???
Thanks and God Bless All,
Daniel

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

GRCS

I've sent PM's to a few of you guys, but the number of enquiries is growing.

We can get several people interested in purchacing winches I may be able to talk a vendor into shaving a few bucks off the list.

This is not an offer from Good Rigging, but i know a few of the people that sell them.

Let me know.

 

[Graeme]

Sorry about the delay, I've been lost in space.
Here's a pic of "Scotty"

 

[Graeme]

Beaming up "Scotty"

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Just look at those rippling forearms! Those come from treework!

Who sells Scotty? Cost in Aussie dollars?

Tom