Sadly frightening competition.

[Stumper]

I met a competetitor today. I was doing a pick prune reduction on a Spruce for an elderly couple who are regular customers. A group of 2 pickups (1 with a flatbed trailer)and a bucket truck pulled up across the street and proceeded to raise and gut a locust. No signs on the vehicles, 4 men, no hearing protection in evidence, no head protection (well one guy was wearing a watch cap). The bucket operator wasn't wearing a harness or belt( but he did have an 020T!). One man spent his whole time standing on top of the brushladen trailer cutting down brush with a Wild Thing as they passed it up to him. The owner walked over and introduced himself (I had heard of him but never met). This outfit is from a nearby city and have been working in our area lately. He pointed proudly to the trees down the street that they had just topped.

 

[ORclimber]

They're everywhere. We have a local company with a bucket truck that topped several blocks of city street trees in a nearby bedroom community. A friend of mine just submitted a bid to the city to cut the stubbed trees back to laterals. The sign on the side of the bucket in large letters reads "Save Big $"

We also have a company that advertises in their yellow page add "will beat any written bid by 10%".

The sad thing is so many people still want their trees topped or hat racked.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

A little north of here there a re couple compnies that will not do any work that they cannot get the bucket on.

Go to Horicon, WI in the fall to see the Canandian Geese migrate and count all the topped trees.

 

[Greg]

A local IHOP resturant had its trees lollipoped about 6 months ago (small live oaks and bradford pears) I mentioned this to my wife as we passed by. I told her to take notice of how they look and to compare what they will look like a few months later. Sure enough all the sprouts where everywhere the trees looked like hell. Well they took care of that, had it done again and had all of the trees rasied to where they look just stupid. These small 3-4" oaks that are only about 20ft tall now have first branches at about 16' up. I can't wait until phase 3 of this pruning job.
I really felt like going in and talking to the manager. But I know that I'd end up hurting his feelings. If I ate there I'd make sure to take the signs off of my truck, I'd hate to have someone think I had anything to do with a butch job like that. ---the wonders of a bucket truck and ignorance.
Greg

 

[treeman82]

Greg, I was driving through a neighborhood last weekend to get someplace and saw pretty much what you are talking about. If I am being accurate, they started clearing the land for the 52 home development 8 years ago, so maybe they finished 3 years ago or so. Looks like a "tree company" went through there within the past month or so as all the cuts looked pretty fresh. Lotta telephone poles with suckers on them all through the development. Lots of small maples and ash's had been topped just leaving them as sticks with LOTS of suckers. I guess they did a removal or two... because there were heavy concentractions of sticks and saw dust in certain areas.

PS. The houses in this place probably range from $600,000 on the low end, to $900,000 on the high end... MAYBE 1 or 2 in there at $1,000,000.00

 

[Greg]

I call a lollipop a tree that has been rounded usually with hedge trimmers like you might do a bush. Basically topping the tree, but usually just the very end of all the branches, not your typical top where you can see stubs everywhere.
Greg

 

[treeclimber165]

Lollipops are big business here in Orlando. Half the big malls and strip centers think it's classy to have butchered trees along the front of their property. The other half do it because the trees are required by code and they want to increase visibility of their signs and buildings. The owners would remove the trees if they were allowed. Tree guys do it because 'ALL the fancy places do their trees like this!'. Lawn guys see the lollipops all around town and 'train' smaller trees on their properties to match the bigger lollipops at the fancy places. Homeowners want their trees done this way because they saw trees like that in front of the mall.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

And if they would just choose the proper cultivar durring instalation they would not need to do that trimming.

 

[Treeman14]

And so we come back to the LA's who planned these projects in the first place.

 

[Toddppm]

I've got to get a picture of one of the main intersections of our city that they lollipop a group of trees in the center median a couple times a year. I think there is a tree city usa sign there too. Many of the shopping centers around here do it oo. I've be meaning to write to our city arborist to see why they continue to do this?

 

[treespec]

I stop to stop topping

Every chance I get when I see a topped tree either residental or commerial, I stop and drop off the ISA brochure-'Why topping hurts trees'. Good information can't hurt. Also, it has my company info on the back.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The worst I've encountered so far.

We were dropping a tree on the lake, and noticed a crew doing the same across the bay about 100 yards away. The lake has about 18" of ice so it makes droppig these shoreline trees easy. For the ice challanged, what we typically do is auger a hole and set an anchor under the ice(a stick with a rope tied in the middle) and tie a pulley to it. Then we run the pull rope from the tree being removed, through the pulley, back to a good rigging device on shore.
We dropped the tree without incident and looked to our competitors to do the same. They had climbed the tree, dropped some limbs, done some cutting in the ice, so we knew they were ready to go. They made their cuts and nothing happened. They both came walking over and asked for help pulling on the rope.
As I approached their job I was amazed at what they had. The tree was huge, leaning towards a very expensive looking new house, totally dead, the top was tangled in a near by tree, and there was an old, very old, hemp rope hanging there. I asked where his climbing rope was, and he pointed at the hemp rope. I picked up the end and it was crumbling in my hand. They also now had a notch and backcut with the saw stuck in the kerf.
I told him he needed to set an anchor, get a come along or something to pull, and get a different rope. I alo strongly suggested he not climb on his rope any more. There was not one single item of personal saftey gear in sight(of course).
I refused to even try to pull on the rope the way things were. I wasn't going to be part of that mess.

 

[treespec]

Out come

Mike, Did they get the tree over safely yet?

 

[treeist]

Hey stumper,
dont worry about those hacks you encountered. I recommend getting involved with the community IE, tree commission, Letters to the editor, state your love and dedication to the care of trees from the hilltops. and let your advertisments educate, and inform your potential customers.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Treespec,
Yes they got it over that day(last Sat). They folloed my advice, with the exception of putting a different rope in. They also came back with some helpers.
With the come-along attached, the three guys pulled on the line and it still would not come, so the fourth guy cut some more, and it came over. The top crumbled asit went through the neighboring tree and looked like some pieces almost hit the sawyer.
If I had agreed to help, we would have been pulling and this guy cutting... it just scares me.
He probably thinks I'm a jerk for not at least trying his way, but at least you guys know I'm not...

 

[treespec]

Out come

Better too be alive jerk than a dead or injured one. I wouldn't helped them either!

 

[Yellowdog]

can I make a suggestion?

Guys,
If you are worried about your competitors taking away business (because you know you do a good job and you price it accordingly) with cheaper substandard work, you can always advertise that you "fix other company's mistakes."

If you see an "ugly" job across the street from where you are working and your work stands on its merits, send the guy across the street a card and a short note in the mail including a business card and the address where you last worked (across the street). The difference will be immediately apparent, then, if the neighbor wants to keep up with the Jones', you can "fix" their trees. Just a thought.

I have only been in business 6 years yet I am getting more fixing jobs and referrals from the people I fixed stuff for. In my line of work, which is different from tree climbing, I take pride in what I do, use all the safest equipment, and go into debt to do it, while I watch my fly by night competitors take work. The only thing that keeps me sane is knowing that advertising and name recognition will land me an interview long after the fly by night guys with the joe homeowner tools has blown his money on booze or made "his killin' " and moved on.

 

[Stumper]

I'm concerned about these guys on several fronts.

1. They have a high risk of getting seriously hurt.

2. They are perpetuating misconceptions about what constitutes professional tree care.

3. They are likely to increase costs for everyone when they cause serious damage or injury.

4. They are driving down prices by lowballing bids.

I'm not worried about them taking over my customer base. I try not to spend to much time or effort worrying about theings which I can't control and I support other people in their right to do what they wish so long as they aren't injuring others. While it could be argued that these guys ARE injuring others in view of the foregoing concerns I believe that the injuries have to be more overt before anyone/interferes with their activities. I just find this to be a sad situation which all of us seem to confront from time to time.
The owner actually asked if I had a bucket truck. When I told him I did not he gave me his business card and told me to call him for the ones I can't handle. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I would never recommend him to come near any of my customers properties.

 

[Yellowdog]

If you really want to do something about unfair competitors, you can always find out names and addresses and as much information as you can and then ask your state sales tax commission whether or not they pay sales tax.
I know first hand a number of local competitor's here that found themselves in hot water for running a business and not paying sales tax. In Texas the state comptroller will freeze assets while it makes its investigation. If sales tax is due or hasn't been paid, as determined by an audit, a business has penalty, interest, etc. that must be paid before assets are unfrozen.

In some areas here, permits are required before tree work can be done. Some outfits don't even know this and just start working. This can get them cited if it is brought to the attention of a city official.

Your points are valid. My guess is, unless you had a relationship with the guys, they wouldn't listen to safety concerns anyway. And yes, I believe that bad apples can give an industry a bad name. I spend time educating customers on the differences in my line of work so that they can compare apples to apples when I bid a job. I still have a lot to learn in the bidding process and it is disheartening to see a fly by nighter take a job and do a horrendous job with leaky equipment after I spent time on a bid, or what's worse to me, doing a great job only to see the neighbor (whom I met) take the cheaper way out and seeing the difference in the two properties.

Driving down prices stinks BUT, I think, no I believe, that you get what you pay for and eventually, maybe it will take a while, the consumers will become more educated and base the decisions they make regarding contractors on information instead of sales pitches with rock bottom prices...

 

[Ryan Willock]

I got under bid twice by the "fly by nighters" today, i honestly don't see how these people make ANY $$$$!!!!