Saw Kickback Direction

[RaisedByWolves]

I think what hes refering to is plausable, but I wouldnt use the term "Kick Back" In reference to it.




Maby something along the lines of bar jump or chain stick or something.

 

[PA Plumber]

I think it is backwards Woodie. On page 110, the "Natural" and "Desired" falling directions are also reversed.

 

[SawTroll]

Okay...now that I've been threatened by a sponsor... :hmm3grin2orange:

None other than... (where's the dizamm drumroll smiley...don't we gots one of those??) ...

D. Douglas Dent
Professional Timber Falling
1974

Pg 160

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

 

[Engineeringnerd]

Dent's book is excellent, but I have found a number of problems with his diagrams. I think somebody tried to illustrate his thoughts and the editor didn't pay much attention. Sometimes the verbiage doesn't match the pictures.

In this case, the verbiage doesn't seem to match reality. If you hit the top quarter of the bar's tip (or even the very tip to a lesser degree), the bar is coming up.

 

[Woodie]

Dent's book is excellent, but I have found a number of problems with his diagrams. I think somebody tried to illustrate his thoughts and the editor didn't pay much attention. Sometimes the verbiage doesn't match the pictures.

In this case, the verbiage doesn't seem to match reality. If you hit the top quarter of the bar's tip (or even the very tip to a lesser degree), the bar is coming up.

Yup.

But here's the deal: Whenever I go to buy another book about a subject that I have some knowlege about, I always "test" the book by reviewing the areas where I do have some knowledge. That way I can see if the author knows what he's talking about. If he does agree with what others write about in that area, then I usually develop a level of comfort for what he says in the areas where I don't have any knowledge. (Or if he doesn't agree, can he state good reasons for disagreeing? That counts too.)

So this author is someone I've heard good things about. But if he doesn't understand something so very very basic to safety as friggin kickback, and let's face it...the man doesn't, well then...what else is he wrong about? The way this page is written, it's more than an editing oversight. The text is wrong, the illustration is wrong, the caption to the illustration is wrong, and the whole theory is wrong. Saws don't kick downwards. Back and up...not down.

I was reading another bit about tension and compression, and he also has those two concepts backwards, although it is at least possible that the page in question was an editing oversight.

Anyone else have any thoughts about Mr. Dent's work? Before the book goes in the dumpster?

SawTroll...by the looks of your headbanging post, I take it you don't like his work?

 

[Rftreeman]

that's backwards, someone screwed up

 

[smokechase II]

Dents videos

Dent's films are certainly dated.
Back then it was fairly expensive and more difficult to get your film edited than to shoot and edit your own digital video today.

But, those excuses aside. The Dent video's, circa early or mid 70's are a fair bit worse.

I've heard that Dent has become more of an advocate for plunge cutting the back-cut. More than for just barber chair avoidance.

Dent really should up-date his book and especially his videos.

In his defense. He was a bit of a pioneer in getting it down in print and film back then.

 

[redprospector]

Dent's book has a lot of good information, but it's kinda like a chain saw forum, you have to sort out the BS to get to the good info.
Back in the 80's when I first read it, my boss loaned me his copy. It had a lot of stuff hi-lited. He said, that was the BS just read the rest. I do the same with the guy's that work for me. It's nice when you're trying to teach someone if they have an idea what you're talking about.

Andy

 

[Engineeringnerd]

Does anyone have what they consider a really excellent video of real-world cutting without all the "fluff" most of the books have. I heard G.F. Beranek was making a video, but haven't seen it. I thought his book was better than Dent's, but I have a few pages highlighted where I think there are some errors.

By the way, I emailed Beranek several months ago about a difficult tree I was cutting and asked for clarification on a point in his book. He promptly wrote back. He seems to be a class act.

I've even thought about getting out my video gear and following around a couple of experts for a few weeks and documenting every tree they fall and editing it into some usable fashion for beginner lumberjacks. As good as Beranek's book is, it has so many special cases and climbing info, it's hard to find what you need. Many guys just want to be able to safety bring a tree to the ground and cut it up without all the filler.

 

[smokechase II]

getting it right

Engineerguy:

I do agree on your evaluation of Beraneks' book and have heard several folks speak positively of their experiences with him.

However, when you look at there is to falling with the geographic, species, topography mill needs and historic backgrounds. Getting it all in one book.

That would be a few volumes.

Perhaps that is the right idea.
Wikipedia by the falling community.
Get a copy of Dent, Ard, Beranek and the BC Faller and Buckers Guide to start with.
Mostly though. After soaking up all the book learning you can, learn from the old but not bold local cutters.

 

[SawTroll]

....
SawTroll...by the looks of your headbanging post, I take it you don't like his work?

His book has a good reputation, and the little I have read of it has been good, so I became a bit p*d off, when the reports of mistakes kept coming, and I read it was him.......