Semi Chisel VS Chisel chain for milling

[logbob]

So, the local shop made a mistake and instead of a semi-chisel they used a full chisel to prepare the granberg type chain for my MS 660 - 36" bar.
Now they argue I didn't tell them I wanted round instead of square, and they don't know what to do with the chain, and bla bla bla.

Do I have to insist on the replacement or do I keep the chisel chain ?
I always used semi-chisel this far for milling, as I heard full chisel result in a rougher finish (which I hate) and dull faster...
Would like to hear some opinions on the matter...

 

[betterbuilt]

So, the local shop made a mistake and instead of a semi-chisel they used a full chisel to prepare the granberg type chain for my MS 660 - 36" bar.
Now they argue I didn't tell them I wanted round instead of square, and they don't know what to do with the chain, and bla bla bla.

Do I have to insist on the replacement or do I keep the chisel chain ?
I always used semi-chisel this far for milling, as I heard full chisel result in a rougher finish (which I hate) and dull faster...
Would like to hear some opinions on the matter...

I'd make them take it back. There's no reason they can't put it back on the roll it came off. Local shop are either great or a big pain. I'd take my business else where if they don't take it back.

 

[n8ghz]

I'd just use it for cutting firewood, and if they made anymore for me, I'd tell them exactly what I wanted....what are we talking....under ~30 bucks? Why make an enemy?

 

[betterbuilt]

I'd just use it for cutting firewood, and if they made anymore for me, I'd tell them exactly what I wanted....what are we talking....under ~30 bucks? Why make an enemy?

What ever happened to customer service or The customer is alway right. Seem like the only guys that own shops are bipolar and they never write anything down. They get off by making you feel like it's your fault.

 

[logbob]

They already cut off the scoring teeth, and sharpened to 10 degrees, reason why they can't put it back on the roll it came off, and it's not good for crosscutting either. It's like a Granberg now, but full chisel....
Anyone using a Granberg style full chisel ?
It's a little more than 30 bucks as it came of a Stihl Rapid roll and they are more expensive, so just want to know if it is usable...or just good for the thrash can....

 

[Timberframed]

I had one shop take them to 30 degrees (without calling me) and I tried it with negative results so they re-ground to 10. I lost a little of the life of the chain but they know better now. The guy said he never saw a chain like that before and had been in business for 60 years. You have to make sure they understand it's ripping chain even if you insult thier intelligence which is what I did.

 

[betterbuilt]

Well if they custom ground it, I'd say you own it. It'll cut fine.

 

[BobL]

If you didn't tell them then I can't see what there is to complain about>

Well if they custom ground it, I'd say you own it. It'll cut fine.

I agree, it's not like you'll be cutting anything hard.

 

[dustytools]

Use it, you can resharpen it with a round file and eventually have a round profile.

 

[mtngun]

So, the local shop made a mistake and instead of a semi-chisel they used a full chisel to prepare the granberg type chain for my MS 660 - 36" bar.

I always used semi-chisel this far for milling, as I heard full chisel result in a rougher finish (which I hate) and dull faster...

Will Malloff made his milling chains out of full chisel, not semi-chisel.

For future reference, there is little advantage to the Granberg style chain, other than gaining 500 or so rpm in the cut, similar to skip chain.

I recommend the Malloff grind instead, though it can be a bit rough.

 

[hamish]

They already cut off the scoring teeth, and sharpened to 10 degrees, reason why they can't put it back on the roll it came off, and it's not good for crosscutting either. It's like a Granberg now, but full chisel....
Anyone using a Granberg style full chisel ?
It's a little more than 30 bucks as it came of a Stihl Rapid roll and they are more expensive, so just want to know if it is usable...or just good for the thrash can....

If you got a loop in Europe that has had its scoring teeth cut off and re-sharpened to 10 degrees for a lil more then $30 you should buy more from that dealer and re-sell it!
MMaking a loop of chain is nothing, but cutting down scoring teeth and resharpeninf to 10 degrees is labour intensive for a shop to do. To converta full chisel chain to a granberg style chain would take more then an hour.

 

[logbob]

If you didn't tell them then I can't see what there is to complain about

Of course I told them...

It seems to me like the Granberg style is easier on the saw and the finish is smoother. Possibly a little slower, but the smoother finish allows for faster planing.
Amish, 35 or so was the chain off the roll, and the grinding job was about 10, which is not much given the time it takes to custom grind it to Granberg style.
I'll give it a try and see how it works...

 

[hamish]

Granberg style chain wil hold a little bot more rom in the cut, the quality of the cut is questionable as to if its better or not.

Sharpen your own granberg-style chain and you will never use another one again.

 

[BlueRider]

....Sharpen your own granberg-style chain and you will never use another one again.

+1

 

[mtngun]

Sharpen your own granberg-style chain and you will never use another one again.

The man who invented Granberg chain switched to the Malloff grind.

 

[hamish]

The man who invented Granberg chain switched to the Malloff grind.

Oh Dan we know it was you that invented it!

ole sly Dan Granberg!

have to ask......who did invent it, i know it wasn't a granberg........might he been a Malloff..........

Been four years now and still can't get a copy of his book.

 

[mtngun]

have to ask......who did invent it, i know it wasn't a granberg........might he been a Malloff..........

Yep, Malloff invented Granberg chain.

 

[logbob]

To be honest I never tried a maloff, all I tried is the granberg and the oregon ripping, which is a normal chain sharpened to 10°
The oregon was faster but it bogged the saw and the finish did not compare to Granberg. I grind my Granberg to 6° and 20° on the scoring teeth.
Both were tried on the 2071 though.
Possibly the 660 has enough power to pull either the oregon or the maloff without bogging...so I think I will give it a try.

I read somewhere here some thread about the maloff and the grinding specs, but I can't seem to find it now....

 

[BobL]

To be honest I never tried a maloff, all I tried is the granberg and the oregon ripping, which is a normal chain sharpened to 10°
The oregon was faster but it bogged the saw and the finish did not compare to Granberg. . . .

The top plate filing angle (TPFA) has very little to do with a saw bogging down. If anything a smaller TPFA should reduce the chances of a saw bogging down.

The two angles on cutters that can bog a saw are the top plate cutting angle and the raker-cutter-wood angle with the latter being the most significant

Barring something like a bent cutter I'm increasingly coming around to thinking the quality of the finish is largely dependent on the saw/mill moving smoothly down the log.
This means the operator or gravity or a winch being able to;
- the operator or gravity or a winch applying a steady forward pressure on mill - this is why gravity is potentially better force applicator than an operator or using a winch since the downward force of gravity in one place is constant.
- keeping the saw at constant RPM - not repeatedly pushing so as to repeatedly bog the saw
- not seesawing the mill down the log.
- using log rails for every cut, any roughness in finish produced from one cut can become magnified in a subsequent cut if the mill rails have to pass over that roughness.

I can get the same very good finish on 35º TPFA as with 10º TPFA but I have to be much more careful about how I move the mill down the log with the 35º TPFA chain. Seesawing with 35º TPA can really mess up a finish.

The other time one can run into problems with finish is when the width of the cut somehow synchronizes with the speed of the cut.

This photo show cuts made by the same mill, same chain (but with 2 stroke file touchup), same wood - but log in picture on right is about 30% wider.

The finish on the right is my standard finish 10º TPA full comp chain.

 

[mtngun]

I find that the Malloff grind will usually washboard on the first pass and maybe the 2nd pass. As the chain dulls, it takes smaller bites and the washboarding goes away.

A more aggressive raker angle contributes to washboarding, too.

I've observed this on 3 different powerheads, so it I don't think it is a frequency issue. I think it is a matter of a sharp cutter and aggressive angles taking bigger bites. Bigger bites cut faster, but will leave a rougher finish.