Should I add stump grinding to my business?

[Courage]

Hey guys, I'm looking some business advice. I have owned my own landscape maintenance company for the last 3 years.
My bread and butter in weekly lawn service (mowing, trimming, and blowing), but I'm looking to add another service...

Here's my reasoning.

Currently I have 3 days of mowing a week, enough power raking/dethatching, aeration, and spring cleanup to keep me busy from as soon as the snow leaves till mowing starts, and enough sprinkler blowouts and fall cleanups to keep me busy from the end of mowing till we have snow... most of the time. I technically could still be working weather wise this year, but normally we'd have 2' of snow by now.
Anyway, I'm looking for a service to kinda fill 1 or 2 more days each week through the mow season. I don't want to add a day or two of mowing, because I like being able to bump things back and forward enough to not have to skip a week, but still have 6 consecutive days off for trips in the summer...
So I'm looking to add 1 off job type stuff to what I offer. I'm hoping to do more mid season aeration this next year, as I bought a Stinger Dual Aer this summer. But, I'm looking to add something else too.
Now that I've kinda explained what I'm looking for, any thoughts owhich I should buy a stump grinder, and add that to my list of services?

I already have trucks, insurance a trailer, chainsaw, that kinda thing, so really all I'd need would be a grinder, and marketing... How much is your minimum to show up with your Grinder? I like to make $100 an hour of on the job time (with my other work, when I facter in driving into town, driving between jobs, and stopping for a 40 minute lunch break, I average $70-80 an hour for a whole day). Is this reasonable with stump grinding?

What size of grinder would you recommend for starting out?

I've found a Toro STX26 for $7,500, a Vemeer SC292 for $10,500, and a Barretto E30SG for $13,800. Are any of these good starter machines?

I live in North Eastern Washington, so we have a pretty broad mix of trees as far as hardness goes.

Do y'all think stump grinding might be good service to add, or should I keep looking?

Thanks in advance!
Courage

 

[PennHavenTW]

IMO stump grinding would be a wonderful fill in thing, only a couple things to consider.

Depending on your machine size, and number of men onsite, but $100 per hour seems a little low. Of course different locality is to be considered, but I normaly bill $90 per hour for a Bandit SG 40 and $110 per hour for two men. So if one job has 2 machine hours and 4.5 total hours I bill $675, $150 average per hour jobsite time

Stump grinders are extremly high maintenance machines, they are in the dirt, get filthy, dirty air filters, dirt in the drive system (machines vary) and broken and dull teeth from hitting rocks and dirt.

I have experience with a Rayco Super Junior, a Vermeer SC30 and a Bandit SG40 considering entry level machines. My opinion is get a SG40. It is one of my best experiences in this class. Anything smaller will only result in disappointing removals. They will take a LONG time to get any sizable stump out of the ground. Not too disappoint you, but I would not reccomend any of the three you mentioned, they are too small. If I had to choose one you mentioned the Vermeer would probably do the best since it is belt drive and not hydraulic. Alot of power is lost in a hydro system. You have to know your budget though. SG40s certainly are not a 10K machine (for something decent).

And PPE, you certainly will want safety goggles, maybe even a face sheild and chaps, depending on the machine. Some of that dirt comes at you with some real speed! Shins and face usually don't agree!

Love to hear others opinions too!

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

Here in SW Florida, many people expect the stump grinding to be under $200 to get it flush to the ground.

 

[Jed1124]

Why not make lawn treatments to your existing clients? Fertilizer, insect, disease control.

 

[lone wolf]

Why not make lawn treatments to your existing clients? Fertilizer, insect, disease control.

Aeration, fertilizing and seeding pays well! My grinder still isn't paid for after years, 30K for a new one is a lot of stumps to do to break even. A Skid steer is ten times more productive than a Stump Grinder.

 

[Luztree]

Stump grinders are there to just complete a job. Paid $83,000 for my vermeer sc70 track machine 2 1/2 years ago. Has 150 hours on it. 2 clutches under warranty and today they dropped off the machine to me after the wiring harness to the electric clutch went bad. Machine is out of warranty, but to their credit they warranted it. The harness is, wait for it, $3,400 dollars plus all that labor. Love the machine but I hope this solves the clutch problems. So in closing, you do not make money with stump grinding, only finishes the removal job.

 

[lone wolf]

Stump grinders are there to just complete a job. Paid $83,000 for my vermeer sc70 track machine 2 1/2 years ago. Has 150 hours on it. 2 clutches under warranty and today they dropped off the machine to me after the wiring harness to the electric clutch went bad. Machine is out of warranty, but to their credit they warranted it. The harness is, wait for it, $3,400 dollars plus all that labor. Love the machine but I hope this solves the clutch problems. So in closing, you do not make money with stump grinding, only finishes the removal job.

Agreed! Be better off to save the money and buy a Skid Steer or something you would use a lot more and pay someone for grinding.

 

[Courage]

IMO stump grinding would be a wonderful fill in thing, only a couple things to consider.

Depending on your machine size, and number of men onsite, but $100 per hour seems a little low. Of course different locality is to be considered, but I normaly bill $90 per hour for a Bandit SG 40 and $110 per hour for two men. So if one job has 2 machine hours and 4.5 total hours I bill $675, $150 average per hour jobsite time

Stump grinders are extremly high maintenance machines, they are in the dirt, get filthy, dirty air filters, dirt in the drive system (machines vary) and broken and dull teeth from hitting rocks and dirt.

I have experience with a Rayco Super Junior, a Vermeer SC30 and a Bandit SG40 considering entry level machines. My opinion is get a SG40. It is one of my best experiences in this class. Anything smaller will only result in disappointing removals. They will take a LONG time to get any sizable stump out of the ground. Not too disappoint you, but I would not reccomend any of the three you mentioned, they are too small. If I had to choose one you mentioned the Vermeer would probably do the best since it is belt drive and not hydraulic. Alot of power is lost in a hydro system. You have to know your budget though. SG40s certainly are not a 10K machine (for something decent).

And PPE, you certainly will want safety goggles, maybe even a face sheild and chaps, depending on the machine. Some of that dirt comes at you with some real speed! Shins and face usually don't agree!

Love to hear others opinions too!

First of all guys, thanks so much to each one of you for taking the time to share your experience, and wisdom. I really appreciate it! Hope you all had a merry Christmas!

So I took your recommendations into account, and did some more research. I couldnt find any used SG40s. How much approximately do used ones sell for? I ran across a 2019 SC362 Vemeer with under 800 hours on it for just under $14k. I believe that's a little bit bigger that the previous ones I'd mentioned. Big enough you think?
I also assume it's probably fastest to use a saw to get as close to ground level to start with as you can. What size bar/cc class of saw do you primarily use for this? What would you charge for just 1 guy and your machine?

Here in SW Florida, many people expect the stump grinding to be under $200 to get it flush to the ground.

Hmm, yikes. Sounds like maybe I need to do some local market research...

Why not make lawn treatments to your existing clients? Fertilizer, insect, disease control.

I'm trying to stay away from the pesticide side of things. Seems like a lot of those guys are getting weird cancers and stuff...

Aeration, fertilizing and seeding pays well! My grinder still isn't paid for after years, 30K for a new one is a lot of stumps to do to break even. A Skid steer is ten times more productive than a Stump Grinder.

I'm going to do my best to push those 3 things this next year, but just not sure if I can push them hard enough to fill up 2 days most weeks throughout the summer...
Is there much work I could get with just a Skid steer, that wouldn't be large scale install/renovation type jobs that would be too big for a solo guy to knock out in 2 days? If so, I'm very interested in that posablility.

Stump grinders are there to just complete a job. Paid $83,000 for my vermeer sc70 track machine 2 1/2 years ago. Has 150 hours on it. 2 clutches under warranty and today they dropped off the machine to me after the wiring harness to the electric clutch went bad. Machine is out of warranty, but to their credit they warranted it. The harness is, wait for it, $3,400 dollars plus all that labor. Love the machine but I hope this solves the clutch problems. So in closing, you do not make money with stump grinding, only finishes the removal job.

Yikes! You're kinda scaring me! I'd hate to spend the money (all-be-it, much less than you have, but as a 21 y/o, still a fare bit), and it not be profitable, and kinda turn into a headache.

Agreed! Be better off to save the money and buy a Skid Steer or something you would use a lot more and pay someone for grinding.

If I don't buy my own grinder, I would probably just skip taking grinding jobs, since it's not like something that everybody expects their mow guy to have laying around and be able to take care of for them...
Other than a Skid steer, any other prices of equipment in that 10k-15k price range that you'd recommend looking into as a one man show? I've run across quite a few older backhoes and mini ex's in that price range, but just not really sure what kind of services I could offer without having a lot of experience running that equipment...

 

[lone wolf]

First of all guys, thanks so much to each one of you for taking the time to share your experience, and wisdom. I really appreciate it! Hope you all had a merry Christmas!

So I took your recommendations into account, and did some more research. I couldnt find any used SG40s. How much approximately do used ones sell for? I ran across a 2019 SC362 Vemeer with under 800 hours on it for just under $14k. I believe that's a little bit bigger that the previous ones I'd mentioned. Big enough you think?
I also assume it's probably fastest to use a saw to get as close to ground level to start with as you can. What size bar/cc class of saw do you primarily use for this? What would you charge for just 1 guy and your machine?

Hmm, yikes. Sounds like maybe I need to do some local market research...

I'm trying to stay away from the pesticide side of things. Seems like a lot of those guys are getting weird cancers and stuff...

I'm going to do my best to push those 3 things this next year, but just not sure if I can push them hard enough to fill up 2 days most weeks throughout the summer...
Is there much work I could get with just a Skid steer, that wouldn't be large scale install/renovation type jobs that would be too big for a solo guy to knock out in 2 days? If so, I'm very interested in that posablility.

Yikes! You're kinda scaring me! I'd hate to spend the money (all-be-it, much less than you have, but as a 21 y/o, still a fare bit), and it not be profitable, and kinda turn into a headache.

If I don't buy my own grinder, I would probably just skip taking grinding jobs, since it's not like something that everybody expects their mow guy to have laying around and be able to take care of for them...
Other than a Skid steer, any other prices of equipment in that 10k-15k price range that you'd recommend looking into as a one man show? I've run across quite a few older backhoes and mini ex's in that price range, but just not really sure what kind of services I could offer without having a lot of experience running that equipment...

A high-powered power washer might make you money. I'm talking like 6 grand cost. Also, why not get a good ride on Aerator-Seeder? A Stump Grinder just doesn't typically pay for itself very fast at all. Check out how many Aerators operators charge for it in your area. And a Skid Steer is a hell of a time saver for Tree work. Check out all the attachments you can get with them.
What machines do you have now? How about a bigger faster Mower?

 

[Ridgehiker]

my landscaping friend, runs a snowplow in the winter, and in the spring he does a few carport installations

 

[PennHavenTW]

First of all guys, thanks so much to each one of you for taking the time to share your experience, and wisdom. I really appreciate it! Hope you all had a merry Christmas!

So I took your recommendations into account, and did some more research. I couldnt find any used SG40s. How much approximately do used ones sell for? I ran across a 2019 SC362 Vemeer with under 800 hours on it for just under $14k. I believe that's a little bit bigger that the previous ones I'd mentioned. Big enough you think?
I also assume it's probably fastest to use a saw to get as close to ground level to start with as you can. What size bar/cc class of saw do you primarily use for this? What would you charge for just 1 guy and your machine?

https://www.treetrader.com/listing/...-sg40-track-stump-grinders-forestry-equipment

https://www.treetrader.com/listing/...-sg40-track-stump-grinders-forestry-equipment

Here are two listings for SG40s
You might struggle to find a nice one for under 14K

The Vermeer SC362 is a 36 horse power machine and would be a nice start up unit.
Certainly better than the Toro or the Barretto.

And yes get the stump cut as low as you nicely can without hitting dirt, then grind. For a smaller unit like we are talking more wood to grind out equates more time on the job.

I use a Stihl MS 261 with a 20" bar for 85% of my work. Bigger than that I'm running a MS 461 with a 32" bar.

For these size of grinders we are talking I would not charge anything less than $80 hr. Too high maintenance.
If you charge $60 hr for your time and you have a 5 hr stump job with 2 hrs of grinder time I would not bill anything less than $460.
If you feel you can't win jobs with the prices you need, as the others here are saying you will NOT make money on stump grinding. You HAVE to cover expences on stump grinding. $80 and hour seems rediculous for a lousy stump grinder and it probably is, but it will bite you at the end of the day if you try to low ball stump jobs.

But the thing I like about stump grinding is that it is very noncommital. You bid the job, do the work and are done. No coming back on 2 weeks to mow the yard or weed the flower bed. Its a once and done thing.

If you are thinking to take large stumps out with this unit (25"+) it will take a LONG time, just be forewarned.

 

[diver64]

First of all guys, thanks so much to each one of you for taking the time to share your experience, and wisdom. I really appreciate it! Hope you all had a merry Christmas!

So I took your recommendations into account, and did some more research. I couldnt find any used SG40s. How much approximately do used ones sell for? I ran across a 2019 SC362 Vemeer with under 800 hours on it for just under $14k. I believe that's a little bit bigger that the previous ones I'd mentioned. Big enough you think?
I also assume it's probably fastest to use a saw to get as close to ground level to start with as you can. What size bar/cc class of saw do you primarily use for this? What would you charge for just 1 guy and your machine?

Hmm, yikes. Sounds like maybe I need to do some local market research...

I'm trying to stay away from the pesticide side of things. Seems like a lot of those guys are getting weird cancers and stuff...

I'm going to do my best to push those 3 things this next year, but just not sure if I can push them hard enough to fill up 2 days most weeks throughout the summer...
Is there much work I could get with just a Skid steer, that wouldn't be large scale install/renovation type jobs that would be too big for a solo guy to knock out in 2 days? If so, I'm very interested in that posablility.

Yikes! You're kinda scaring me! I'd hate to spend the money (all-be-it, much less than you have, but as a 21 y/o, still a fare bit), and it not be profitable, and kinda turn into a headache.

If I don't buy my own grinder, I would probably just skip taking grinding jobs, since it's not like something that everybody expects their mow guy to have laying around and be able to take care of for them...
Other than a Skid steer, any other prices of equipment in that 10k-15k price range that you'd recommend looking into as a one man show? I've run across quite a few older backhoes and mini ex's in that price range, but just not really sure what kind of services I could offer without having a lot of experience running that equipment...

Quite a lot of jobs for a skid steer up north but a real money maker is a very small excavator to dig waterlines, drainage around foundations etc where you don't want a big machine. Buddy of mine bought a small one that looks like a toy but has to turn away business. He got a post hole digging screw to go with it and makes a killing.