Should I form an alliance? Or just go solo?

[OutOnaLimb]

I have been subbing for this guy for almost a year. All we do is trims and removals. But in my opinion we are just touching the tip of the iceberg in the tree care industry. Tomorrow we are grinding stumps in Denver with a rented grinder, the weather is great and its a couple hundred bucks in my pocket, but I just got off the phone with him and we were discussing all the stuff that we are missing out on. Mostly the little stuff, but it adds up. Stuff like grinding, planting, spraying, root zone areations, Cambistat, Snipper injections, other injections and last but not least fire wood.
I could wait till spring and just go off on my own, or form an alliance with my contracter and start incorperating all my skills to to accent his business or after talking to him I could come into the business as a partner. We are liscensed and insured in both Colorado Springs and Denver. I will get my ISA certification in April. He owns the truck and chipper and the client base. I own all the climbing gear and the experience to get to the job done. Plus the know how to expand the business. My question is should I just keep subbing and raise my rates to 25% or join in a legally binding partnership for about 40%? We still havent talked about percentages or legalaties.

Kenn

 

[NeTree]

Sub!

Yup.

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Yeah, but then I have to work for guys like Stumper who only call me for the nastiest elms you have ever seen.

Kenn

 

[NeTree]

Save all the locusts for him.

 

[OutOnaLimb]

I dont mind the locusts as long as they arnt the wild cultivar that have the 2 inch long spines all over the place. The Burly elms that take us an hour to get a line set really suck. You should see Justin, before he got his BS. He is a pretty good shot with a bow and arrow.

Kenn

 

[NeTree]

Those are perfect for Justin.

 

[Stumper]

Kenn, I'd like for you to keep subbing for me occassionally. I might even save an easy tree for you once. But the deal with your guy in Springs is a seperate issue. If you keep subbing you could still just tell ME "no" .
FWIW I think you should sub and/or go solo. Partnerships are never really equal or fair. A few come close enough to keep the partners happy but most wind up with one or both feeling that they are carrying the other. You are an exceptionally skilled climber-get paid for it! :angel:

 

[blackwaterguide]

subcontracting is the only way to go in my book. I've owned several business's in my time and partnerships are the very worst tax-wise and as legal entities in every state I've ever researched. Don't put it on paper. Working in conjunction, even very closely is so very much sage.

 

[blackwaterguide]

talk to me guys!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Keep the sub contracting scheam and do the other things you would like to.

Tell your client that you would like to do his planting and chemical work, all he has to do is the billing with a markup. I've got a couple guys who do planting for me, I tell them my thoughts, and what I've discussed wih the client and they take it from there. I then get a referal fee, since I don't like billing and 1099's and all that stuff.

 

[treeman82]

Partnerships are no good. The 3 ways I see this going are: 1) keep subbing 2) go out on your own 3) go to work FOR this guy, and sub for other people on weekends or something like that.

 

[Ekka]

Ken

Don't fall into the partnership trap, imagine being accountable and responsible for some-one elses liabilities etc.

Sounds to me that you want your own business and independence, just contract climb a few days a week and start up yourself ... the downside is that you could be viewed as a competitor and the trust factor between you and the companies you work for may erode (conflict of interest).

The key is, why build his business when you can build your own, providing you have the skills, experience, knowledge and determination to succeed. He can still use you, but has to realise the new relationship of businessman to businessman.

Tell him how you feel and what your intentions are, you never know, he may give you profit share without the liabilities of a partnership. Also, I refer jobs on to other businesses and vice versa. For example if he doesn't want to do an aeration and injection he should just refer it on no strings attached.

 

[begleytree]

IME, the 'little' things usually could add up, could make money, but end up costing more money,time, and trouble than you ever imagined.
Partnership? RUN, VERY FAST.
If you have a good thing going, why the big change? I can see rocking the boat a little, but rocking on a calm lake, and rocking on the colorado river are 2 diff things. Do you have a non-competition clause in your sub agreements, or are they verbal?

Couldn't you keep doing what you do, and add some, a little at a time?
-Ralph

 

[jkrueger]

Everyone has said something like I do. I have a partner, no partnership. He, gets most of the jobs and is certied, ISA, etc. and does all the billing. I'm still getting ISA. He does all the plant pathology stuff, spraying, and planting, etc. I do the serious pruning, trees and shrubs. We count on each other and are loyal to the relationship. I have recently contracted to work as a single climber, pruner on a 250 acer restoration project. Could take 10 years. I still give my partner 50% of my time.

Don't go legal, maintain a sound relationship and support each other and also do other jobs, this works for me.

Jack

 

[treeman82]

The unofficial thing sounds good to me in theory. Like "I have this job I need a hand with" or something to that effect. However, what do you do when it's "I need a new X" whose account does that money come from? Who does the machine belong to? That is if you are "partners".

 

[jkrueger]

The unofficial thing sounds good to me in theory. Like "I have this job I need a hand with" or something to that effect. However, what do you do when it's "I need a new X" whose account does that money come from? Who does the machine belong to? That is if you are "partners".

I purchase all my own equipment, i.e., climbing gear, saws, poles, truck, etc. I told him I'd be willing to go half on a new chipper and he wants to be incontrol of ownership on the big stuff. That's OK for me, he then has to pay for maint. and all the other office work.

We do support each other, like he's alwas bringing to my attention up coming ISA courses and I've gotten him on the shade tree commission. All of this sponsers our continued growth in the tree industry, and keeps us ahead of the companies who are only profit minded.

We have a high quality reputation in this area. Many of the new clients report that they don't want the work of tree companies, they heard about us and want the science and sound tree esthetics.

Jack