Show me your Alaskan Mark III rails

[Kicker_92]

BTW I don't know how you can stand being so close to the saw without serious muffs and eye protection for such a long cut.

Hi Bob,

Trust me, I take very good care of my eyes and ears. I always wear frameless safety glasses (they tend to not show up well in pictures) and have gone through many, many different types to find some that actually seal tightly to my face.

For earplugs, I use a closed cell foam version that is extra long. The biggest mistake with earplugs is not installing them correctly. You must pull up the top of your ear so that they can be inserted fully, otherwise they are not very effective. In the high frequency range of a chainsaw, both plugs and/or quality muffs are a good choice. My preference is to use plugs and leave them in all day.

 

[mtngun]

BobL
When you use really tiny print it makes it difficult for some of us to see it

The tiny print may have something to do with me teasing BobL for his safety lectures. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[BobL]

Hi Bob,

Trust me, I take very good care of my eyes and ears. I always wear frameless safety glasses (they tend to not show up well in pictures) and have gone through many, many different types to find some that actually seal tightly to my face.

For earplugs, I use a closed cell foam version that is extra long. The biggest mistake with earplugs is not installing them correctly. You must pull up the top of your ear so that they can be inserted fully, otherwise they are not very effective. In the high frequency range of a chainsaw, both plugs and/or quality muffs are a good choice. My preference is to use plugs and leave them in all day.

Cheers Kicker good to hear you were wearing both hearing and eye protection.

This is a very interesting research article about the effectiveness of ear plugs that all members might find interesting, and is why I don't rely on plugs alone.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/awards/hamilton/pdfs/fourep.pdf

In summary it says exactly what you said, ie with plugs fit is critical. It is so critical that the claimed Noise Reduction Ratings provided by Manufacturers are clearly above any sort of everyday values.

As an example, the claimed NRR by one manufacturer was 33 dBA. Allowing 20 different users to fit their own earplugs gave an average of only 12 dBA, When 10 subjects were fitted by an expert 3 times each the best they could do on average was 16 dBA. The best any expert could manage when fitting a user was 29 dBA.

In another example the manufacturer claimed a NRR of 29, user rating was 17, expertly fitted average rating was 27, and highest expert fitted rating was 33!

Muffs are also not problem free but they are less reliant on the ability of a user to fit them correctly every time.

 

[Kicker_92]

Ok, here's a couple pics of the rails setup on a 32ft log. Notice that they just have to be horizontal, they can flex from side to side without any issues.

Sorry about the cell phone quality pics:

 

[BobL]

Nice work - I have a stack of 10 and 14" long 2 x 4" tubing which I picked up (with permission) from a building site that I can use. Don't have any logs that long though!

 

[sachsmo]

Ok, here's a couple pics of the rails setup on a 32ft log. Notice that they just have to be horizontal, they can flex from side to side without any issues.

Sorry about the cell phone quality pics:

What chain are you using, also how many 32 foot cuts do you get between chains?

So .250 wall 2x4 aluminum tubing would be your 1st choice eh?

We have some in 20 ft. lengths on the rack at work, it's been there for 8 years. I could get it for scrap price!


At scrap price it would be cheaper than uni-strut.

1.5"x3" aluminum extrusion would be sweet, but they sell that stuff by the inch, Could get real spendy, but can be joined almost seamlessly.

 

[gemniii]

Also -
How much time, fuel, and chain oil for a cut?
What saw?

 

[Kicker_92]

Also -
How much time, fuel, and chain oil for a cut?
What saw?

On the MS880 shown with the 41" bar, I'm using 3/8" pitch chain on an 8-pin sprocket, full chisel, semi-skip, and 5° filing angle.

I prefer to use my 385xp whenever possible (3/8" chain 7-pin sprocket), but this one was about 1" too wide for the 30" bar I have on that saw. For edging sides I use the 385xp or an older poulan 3400 with 16" bar for thin cuts and notching on the mini-mill as it wanders less.

Cutting times vary so much by log width and lengths that its hard to say, but usually about 30mins for a cut in this dry Fir. I sharpen after each pass with a handheld grinder, and swap out the chains about every three touch-ups. The chain angles and rakers are reset at home on a Calton wheel grinder from Baileys.

Rails take about 15 min to setup, three deck screws hold each plywood end bracket in place, then I screw whatever chunks of wood seem to fit well to support the middle of the rails. Each rail weighs about 160lbs, so is a two person job.

 

[mtngun]

Kicker, that's chainsaw milling at it's finest.

 

[Kicker_92]

[insert safety add here]

Muffs are also not problem free but they are less reliant on the ability of a user to fit them correctly every time.

I find with muffs that the safety glasses create a small gap and allow noise through. At a previous job I had, we used to use both plugs and special low freq muffs overtop. The problem with lower frequencies is the vibration through the bones in your face are more of a problem than the actual ear opening. The high frequency range of chainsaws is important to protect since it's also what lets you distinguish voices.

The key is proper use of whichever type of protection you use. As you pointed out, improperly installed plugs will have little affect. I'd suggest to anyone going for a hearing test, as them to show you how to put in a plug. You'll be amazed by the differance.

Keep in mind that a 10db drop is percieved to be half as loud. So as Bob pointed out:

user rating was 17, expertly fitted average rating was 27

That differance will make everything sound like half the volume it was with the plug squished in improperly.

[and now back to your milling rails discussion]

 

[gemniii]

Rails take about 15 min to setup, three deck screws hold each plywood end bracket in place, then I screw whatever chunks of wood seem to fit well to support the middle of the rails. Each rail weighs about 160lbs, so is a two person job.

Do you make a custom end support for varying diameters of trees?

And thanks for the data.
Happy New Year!

 

[sachsmo]

On the MS880 shown with the 41" bar, I'm using 3/8" pitch chain on an 8-pin sprocket, full chisel, semi-skip, and 5° filing angle.

I prefer to use my 385xp whenever possible (3/8" chain 7-pin sprocket), but this one was about 1" too wide for the 30" bar I have on that saw. For edging sides I use the 385xp or an older poulan 3400 with 16" bar for thin cuts and notching on the mini-mill as it wanders less.

Cutting times vary so much by log width and lengths that its hard to say, but usually about 30mins for a cut in this dry Fir. I sharpen after each pass with a handheld grinder, and swap out the chains about every three touch-ups. The chain angles and rakers are reset at home on a Calton wheel grinder from Baileys.

Rails take about 15 min to setup, three deck screws hold each plywood end bracket in place, then I screw whatever chunks of wood seem to fit well to support the middle of the rails. Each rail weighs about 160lbs, so is a two person job.

Thank you so much for the pics and other tricks of the trade.

I need to make a trailer like they use for propane tanks, or cemetery vaults to lift my logs up to a "user friendly" level. Guess for now I could get one of those "farm jacks" I may be able to catch one on sale at the local Rural King.

 

[Kupreanof]

What is the spec/trade name on the 2x4 rails? Anybody know? It would make it easier to have them ordered in up here.

 

[Kicker_92]

What is the spec/trade name on the 2x4 rails? Anybody know? It would make it easier to have them ordered in up here.

Just plain rectangular tubing. Any welding or metalworking shop should be able to point you in the right direction.

The 2x4 rails I'm using is typically called Hollow Structural Steel (HSS), and is just mild steel tubing that's commonly used for posts and structural applications (buildings, gates, racking, etc.). Our steel supplier stocks it in 20ft and 40ft lengths. I used the same size to build a utility trailer, so it made sense to order it all at once.

Do you make a custom end support for varying diameters of trees?

I use the same plywood support and just screw it in higher on larger logs.

For lifting the logs and beams, we have a couple cant hooks and farm jacks, but usually just cheat and use the mini-excavator.

 

[MR4WD]

On the MS880 shown with the 41" bar, I'm using 3/8" pitch chain on an 8-pin sprocket, full chisel, semi-skip, and 5° filing angle.

I prefer to use my 385xp whenever possible (3/8" chain 7-pin sprocket), but this one was about 1" too wide for the 30" bar I have on that saw. For edging sides I use the 385xp or an older poulan 3400 with 16" bar for thin cuts and notching on the mini-mill as it wanders less.

Cutting times vary so much by log width and lengths that its hard to say, but usually about 30mins for a cut in this dry Fir. I sharpen after each pass with a handheld grinder, and swap out the chains about every three touch-ups. The chain angles and rakers are reset at home on a Calton wheel grinder from Baileys.

Rails take about 15 min to setup, three deck screws hold each plywood end bracket in place, then I screw whatever chunks of wood seem to fit well to support the middle of the rails. Each rail weighs about 160lbs, so is a two person job.

Amazing... where abouts in the province do you call home?

Thanks, Chad.

 

[jimdad07]

Kicker_92,

Very nice work, you just gave me a few more ideas to make my mill. GOOD JOB!!!

 

[chuckwood]

raising logs

I need to make a trailer like they use for propane tanks, or cemetery vaults to lift my logs up to a "user friendly" level. Guess for now I could get one of those "farm jacks" I may be able to catch one on sale at the local Rural King.

For lifting big logs, I use a heavy piece of a steel angle iron that I bolt onto the end of the log using 1/2" thick lag screws. The steel angle is long enough that it sticks out on both sides. With a couple of 3 ton automotive type floor jacks on each side of the log and under the steel angle, you can apply lifting force on both sides of the log, and that keeps it from rolling over. It's necessary to place some pieces of thick and wide oak lumber under the jacks to prevent them from sinking into the ground. As the log goes up, you keep shoving and stacking lumber under it for safety as you're working with it. The floor jacks can maybe raise it up a foot or so. If you wish to go another foot, just securely support the log and place wide, heavy wooden pieces under the floor jacks and go up another foot. I take a small generator with me to power an electric drill and an electric impact wrench for installing and removing the big lag screws that fasten the angle iron to the log. There are maybe easier and faster methods, but that's what works for me with the equipment I already have laying around the shop.