Silver solder muffler

[TheRealWorld]

well what do you think methylacetylene-propadiene propane is then? I'll wait

I will also wait, but most of all, I am glad we can get the yellow gas cylinders............bud!

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

MAPP gas hasn't been made since Bush was in the White House there bud.

Whaaaat???

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-TS8000KC-Premium-Torch-Kit-336638/205683985

 

[heimannm]

You can get a low temperature brazing rod from McMaster Carr that will work with the yellow cylinders if the material is relatively thin.

https://www.mcmaster.com/brazing-ro...hout-cadmium/melting-temperature~1175-1235-f/
Mark

 

[HansFranz]

well what do you think methylacetylene-propadiene propane is then? I'll wait

Obviously you're not a golfer.

Methylacetylene and acetylene's diffrunt. Just because one word contains another word doesn't mean they's the same, particularly in chemical names. (Glycerine, for example, is diffrunt from nitroglycerine.) Try to compress acetylene and methylacetylene above 15 or 20 psi and you'll find out just how diffrunt they are! (Go ahead and try it -- I'll wait here.)

 

[HansFranz]

Whaaaat???

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-TS8000KC-Premium-Torch-Kit-336638/205683985

"In early 2008, true MAPP gas production ended in North America when production was discontinued at the only remaining plant in North America that still manufactured it. However, many current products labeled "MAPP" are, in fact, MAPP substitutes."

Yeah, I know: "The bottle's yeller, so that means it's MAPP gas!"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas
Splitting hairs? Yeah, but I guess I get annoyed when somebody barges into a thread to "correct" someone else -- and starts spouting a bunch of technical mumbo jumbo, from the chemical composition of a fuel gas to the melting points of various fillers -- when the "corrector" doesn't know WTF he's talking about. In this case, the "corrector" was wrong in pretty much every detaill...

 

[northmanlogging]

Obviously you're not a golfer.

Methylacetylene and acetylene's diffrunt. Just because one word contains another word doesn't mean they's the same, particularly in chemical names. (Glycerine, for example, is diffrunt from nitroglycerine.) Try to compress acetylene and methylacetylene above 15 or 20 psi and you'll find out just how diffrunt they are! (Go ahead and try it -- I'll wait here.)

dig up dummy
and I admitted I was wrong about silver solder, do yourself a favor and grow up.

 

[northmanlogging]

Ever notice the pressure on a commercial acetylene? 700psi or there abouts when full, they get that by mixing it with acetone which is were the smell, comes from.
Methyl denotes made with Methane or derived from methane, since classic acetylene is made by dissolving calcium carbide in water, and is a pretty sketchy process, Hence the M and the A in the MAPP gas.
propadiene also known as alene exists in equilibrium with methylacetylene can't have one without the other.
Propane i.e. LPG is there for a liquid source for the methyacetylene to dissolve into. so it can be pressurized.
MAPP yes no longer is sold, as it was a commercial name
MAP, chemically the same but because of trademark laws, is how its sold today.

 

[link]

When porting a muffler using silver solder to add a port what solder is the right one? I see a range of silver content. Im going to try it using mapp gas. I have a pair of small oxy acetylene tanks but its just not in the budget to have them filled.

Thanks. Jason.

You can get silver solder in different qualities from only a few % silver and up, low silver content is chap and high silver content is... yes you guessed it. Usually they have a melting point at about 650 degree Celsius and up.
If you want an easy job of making a nice result I would recommend about 40-50% silver content, this is because it flows really easy. Low silver content bracing tend to melt in lumps and it's really much more difficult to get a good result with it.

At a muffler you can use regular propane if you have a good turbo torch, a turbo torch mixes the gas and air and creates the flame within a tube and it makes a short and wide bracing flame - not like an acetylene welder or a pointed flame low temp propane torch.
I can actually melt copper or brass using my turbo torch at regular propane, thats why I don't use MAP. You actually risk overheating that will result in severe distortions of the thin metal plating.

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/silver-brazing-on-outside-of-muffler.361062/post-7769153
https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/my-038-foolium-adventure.340536/#post-7211960
I recommend trying with propane on your torch first, if you have problems getting the silver bracing to melt and flow properly - then switch to MAPP. You can not turn down a turbo torch using MAPP, it must be run at full power or it will melt.
I use flux separately as powder mixed with water, but silver bracing rods coated with flux is easier.
Sanding or grinding the area with a "dremel" tool exposing fresh metal - greatly increases a good result.

 

[TheRealWorld]

You can get steel, small tubing, and brake lines red hot with a handheld small torch, and you can weld them with any of the silver solders. You will need flux to clean and make it flow, but anything you can get to glow red you can solder with silver or Sil Fos.

 

[HansFranz]

Ever notice the pressure on a commercial acetylene? 700psi or there abouts when full, they get that by mixing it with acetone which is were the smell, comes from.

Right about the acetone, wrong about the smell. The garlic you smell is what acetylene smells like, with or without acetone. (The acetone stays absorbed in the porous rock inside the acetylene bottle, unless you tip it over or draw it off too fast.) Take a whiff of a Bangsite cannon. Same smell, no acetone anywhere around. (And if you pressurize acetylene above 15psi without acetone for it to dissolve in, it can become explosive, even without oxygen.)

Methyl denotes made with Methane or derived from methane,

Wrong. Methyl denotes the molecular structure. Methane has nothing to do with methylacetylene and is not used in its production.

MAPP yes no longer is sold, as it was a commercial name
MAP, chemically the same but because of trademark laws, is how its sold today.

It's not chemically the same. It's different. It's not a "trademark" issue.
You should quit while you're "ahead" and maybe read more and post less when you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[northmanlogging]

Right about the acetone, wrong about the smell. The garlic you smell is what acetylene smells like, with or without acetone. (The acetone stays absorbed in the porous rock inside the acetylene bottle, unless you tip it over or draw it off too fast.) Take a whiff of a Bangsite cannon. Same smell, no acetone anywhere around. (And if you pressurize acetylene above 15psi without acetone for it to dissolve in, it can become explosive, even without oxygen.)

Wrong. Methyl denotes the molecular structure. Methane has nothing to do with methylacetylene and is not used in its production.

It's not chemically the same. It's different. It's not a "trademark" issue.
You should quit while you're "ahead" and maybe read more and post less when you don't know what you're talking about.

yer confusing propane with acetylene as far as smell

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methy...l group is an,stable group in most molecules.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylacetylene-propadiene_gasThough I suppose I will grudgingly admit that yes True MAPP is no longer produced,

 

[scottr]

You can get silver solder in different qualities from only a few % silver and up, low silver content is chap and high silver content is... yes you guessed it. Usually they have a melting point at about 650 degree Celsius and up.
If you want an easy job of making a nice result I would recommend about 40-50% silver content, this is because it flows really easy. Low silver content bracing tend to melt in lumps and it's really much more difficult to get a good result with it.

At a muffler you can use regular propane if you have a good turbo torch, a turbo torch mixes the gas and air and creates the flame within a tube and it makes a short and wide bracing flame - not like an acetylene welder or a pointed flame low temp propane torch.
I can actually melt copper or brass using my turbo torch at regular propane, thats why I don't use MAP. You actually risk overheating that will result in severe distortions of the thin metal plating.

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/silver-brazing-on-outside-of-muffler.361062/post-7769153
https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/my-038-foolium-adventure.340536/#post-7211960
I recommend trying with propane on your torch first, if you have problems getting the silver bracing to melt and flow properly - then switch to MAPP. You can not turn down a turbo torch using MAPP, it must be run at full power or it will melt.
I use flux separately as powder mixed with water, but silver bracing rods coated with flux is easier.
Sanding or grinding the area with a "dremel" tool exposing fresh metal - greatly increases a good result.

 

[TheRealWorld]

Right about the acetone, wrong about the smell. The garlic you smell is what acetylene smells like, with or without acetone. (The acetone stays absorbed in the porous rock inside the acetylene bottle, unless you tip it over or draw it off too fast.) Take a whiff of a Bangsite cannon. Same smell, no acetone anywhere around. (And if you pressurize acetylene above 15psi without acetone for it to dissolve in, it can become explosive, even without oxygen.)

Wrong. Methyl denotes the molecular structure. Methane has nothing to do with methylacetylene and is not used in its production.

It's not chemically the same. It's different. It's not a "trademark" issue.
You should quit while you're "ahead" and maybe read more and post less when you don't know what you're talking about.

The bottom line here is we just want to share info and get along. Technicalities are not the main goal unless it is important for safety. Your picture also suggests you are interested in confrontation, we are not, we are here for fun and education. Just thought I would share that...........Bud

 

[HansFranz]

yer confusing propane with acetylene as far as smell

Here ya go.

 

[Mad Professor]

yer thinking of MAPP gas there bud, which as I mentioned before is a mixture of acetylene (MethylAcetylene) and propane. Though I suppose you could go through the added trouble of getting a dedicated acetylene torch ($300) that requires a regulator, hose and bottle (special order only), or you could just use a MAPP gas torch, $30 at any hardware store ever, often sold near the prefluxed brazing rods...

But I will admit I'm wrong about silver solder melting point. To be fair though, the 90% silver coin you mentioned has a much higher melting point then silver solder.
As for filling gaps with Silver solder, yeah its possible, its also stupid expensive and makes for a weak "weld" besides being something that takes at least a little practice to pull of without wasting yer days wages in drippings.


The SIL_FOS mentioned above I'm unfamiliar with, though from the looks of it, its something I should get familiar with, does appear to be what janky hydraulic fittings are joined with, and I tend to tear those up a long ways away from help... especially when said fitting is attached to a truck that has a log sitting on it sideways and now you have no way of moving said log without said hydraulics... grrr

Nope.

Mixture of 3 different hydrocarbons.

Methylacetylene (acetylene with one hydrogen replaced by a methyl group) H3C-CtriplebondC-H

Propadiene H2C=C=CH2 an isomer of methylacetylene

and Propane H3C-CH2-CH3

 

[Mad Professor]

well what do you think methylacetylene-propadiene propane is then? I'll wait

Mixture of 3 different hydrocarbons.


Methylacetylene (acetylene Mol form. C2H2 with one hydrogen replaced by a methyl group -CH3 )
H3C-CtriplebondC-H Mol form.C3H8


Propadiene H2C=C=CH2 an allene, Mol form.C3H8
Propadiene is a constitutional isomer of methylacetylene, that is they have same carbon skeleton C-C-C



and Propane H3C-CH2-CH3 a saturated hydrocarbon Mol form. C3H8

 

[link]

Here ya go.

If you look at my post refered to here: https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/my-038-foolium-adventure.340536/#post-7211960
Id say you really need to be an experienced artist if you're gonna achieve that with an Acetylene torch.
I would not recommend trying to do that unless you have several mufflers to experiment with to begin with - and a persistent will to carry on even though you will certainly fail at least a dunsin times. And you will certainly destroy that muffler every time you try.

 

[link]

Whaaaat???

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-TS8000KC-Premium-Torch-Kit-336638/205683985

That particular torch is the same you see in the background of my picture refered to earlier in this thread.
Its a solid torch, high power. But with the high power comes a particular wide flame, I'd prefer the slightly less wide flame torch with slightly less power at a muffler (details). Mine is a Chinese knock off, this is the original:
https://www.sievert.se/products/https://www.sievert.se/products/turbojet/Very expensive, thats 200 dollas just for the handle... probably worth it - I wouldn't know.

This is the one I use:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...00008089393484!sea&curPageLogUid=M3CjlchNdxyn