Sitka, engelmann, etc

[sprucesnob]

I was hoping someone on this forum may be able to offer some direction in my venture. I am a lowly guitar maker. I want to be able to purchase my spruce for instrument making direct. I do not wish to purchase from a traditional tone wood supplier. I would like to split,mill, and dry all of my own material. I am interested in sitka spruce, engelmann, lutz, and really any other white spruces that you guys think will be up to the job. The issue I am having is finding a source. I have written numerous emails and made plenty of phone calls with no luck. I know that my requirements for spruce are pretty strict and difficult to come by, but there has to be someone out there that can help. The dimensions and requirements are as follows. roughly 40" diameter tree, preferably be cut 10` from the base, perfectly straight, high grain count( roughly 16 grains per inch), needs to be very white, 26" long piece(s). Thank you for reading this, I hope no one finds this thread to be out of line.

Rob

 

[northmanlogging]

yer not out of line a far as I am concerned but then I don't matter... anyway spruce is sorta easy to find around here (Western Warshington). the problem arises when you want it shipped to Ohio, how much you willing to pay could be the defining factor. The guys logging farther north could have a better line on better wood as well but then you start dealing with inter-country shipping... big headache... hopefully there is something closer to home you could exploit...

 

[Freehand]

Adirondack Red Spruce tops. The most sought after vintage guitars had them. A lot closer in New York……...

Dream Guitars- Fine Handcrafted Instruments, Vintage Guitars, Classical Guitars, Electric Guitars, Mandolins in Asheville, North Carolina

 

[sprucesnob]

Adirondack Red Spruce tops. The most sought after vintage guitars had them. A lot closer in New York……...

Dream Guitars- Fine Handcrafted Instruments, Vintage Guitars, Classical Guitars, Electric Guitars, Mandolins in Asheville, North Carolina

I have looked into the red spruce as well and it seems that it is very difficult to procure, even more so than Alaskan/western timbers. I am open to any instrument grade spruces that fall into my criterion. The price may be an issue as that I do not have any idea what something like this may cost. I am not looking for any hand outs and I willing to pay what I can afford.

Rob

 

[Freehand]

You have to skip the commercial operations and find someone with a woodlot up there. I have a friend that lives by lake Erie that said he could send me home with cords of it. They burn it for firewood up there. Never did get the chance to do it. Gotta live by the scrounger's credo…."Scour and Acquire"

 

[floyd]

Try Craigslist in CO, UT,WY,MT.

 

[northmanlogging]

so ya want 40" dia, 26" long, 16 rings an inch, 10' max from the stump. Thats around 200 pounds, ish. I will keep an eye out, freight is going to be a bastard though pm with contact info could be a long wait... whats the minimum dia. you would take? By the way can hardly give spruce away around here only one place I know of takes it as logs... and they don't pay much but you could maybe give them a call Formark out of Everret Wa, or Tacoma Wa (pronounced Tah ko ma), They be log brokers but they take just about everything that grows around here once again pm and I'll send that info as well...

 

[Freehand]

The OP needs to keep in mind that there are thirty five named subspecies of Spruce in the world, and only a hand full of them are luthier grade. Sitka or Red Spruce are the most common for this application.

 

[sprucesnob]

You have to skip the commercial operations and find someone with a woodlot up there. I have a friend that lives by lake Erie that said he could send me home with cords of it. They burn it for firewood up there. Never did get the chance to do it. Gotta live by the scrounger's credo…."Scour and Acquire"

I am out Cleveland Ohio. Does your buddy have instrument grade material?

 

[Freehand]

My buddy happens to be out of the country at the moment, and I doubt he would want to bother with freight shipping a single log. My point was that Red Spruce is right next to you Pennsylvania, etc.. Mebbe work craigslist in areas east of your location…...

 

[northmanlogging]

not to be a jerk but if'n you read the op he states several times that he wants WHITE spuce not RED. As I always say the costumer is never right but there paying us to do it...

 

[Freehand]

not to be a jerk but if'n you read the op he states several times that he wants WHITE spuce not RED. As I always say the costumer is never right but there paying us to do it...

That he does, and if'n he wants to pay to ship something inferior two thousand miles more power to him.

 

[sprucesnob]

"I have looked into the red spruce as well and it seems that it is very difficult to procure, even more so than Alaskan/western timbers. I am open to any instrument grade spruces that fall into my criterion. The price may be an issue as that I do not have any idea what something like this may cost. I am not looking for any hand outs and I willing to pay what I can afford."

"That he does, and if'n he wants to pay to ship something inferior two thousand miles more power to him."

What do you mean by this Freehand?

I have checked out craigslist in those areas for Red spruce already. I have been a this for a little while. I have realized that what I want is pretty tough to come by and finding it in red spruce is even tougher. Red spruce or adirondack spruce has been heavily logged (according to guitar makers) and they can't even find it with tight grain anymore. I even see guitars made with red spruce have pin knots and pitch marks. This is normally never acceptable in a guitar, but since the stuff is so scarce, it is allowed. When I said in the original post " any other white spruces", I really meant color. I want very white colored spruce. For me the color, grain count/growth rings, and the quality are the most important things. I am sure the most commonly used guitar spruces are only that because of the availability. Each spruce does have a specific tonal pallet, but there is large variances from tree to tree and piece to piece. I know of some builders who use Colorado blue spruce, which from my knowledge has not been used by the big companies at all. Does that mean its not suitable for guitars, no. I do appreciate everyones help with this. Thank you

 

[stikine]

Here's a few pics of a nice Sitka on a recent helicopter sale. Notice the "white wood" which is highly valued by the tonewood folks. This particular tree was about 5 1/2' on the stump and many of the bucking cuts were only in 6' segments (so they didn't have to rip any for the helicopter).

Lot's of interest in music wood up here and the demand seems to always exceed the supply. The picture of the spruce bolts in the container van was from a few years back...not sure what the different paint schemes mean but it's probably grade related.

Sprucesnob - I know you want the whole log but if you were to purchase the bolts instead you would save considerably on shipping costs and the "waste wood" that comes with processing a log into bolts. Just a thought.

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[sprucesnob]

Here's a few pics of a nice Sitka on a recent helicopter sale. Notice the "white wood" which is highly valued by the tonewood folks. This particular tree was about 5 1/2' on the stump and many of the bucking cuts were only in 6' segments (so they didn't have to rip any for the helicopter).

Lot's of interest in music wood up here and the demand seems to always exceed the supply. The picture of the spruce bolts in the container van was from a few years back...not sure what the different paint schemes mean but it's probably grade related.

Sprucesnob - I know you want the whole log but if you were to purchase the bolts instead you would save considerably on shipping costs and the "waste wood" that comes with processing a log into bolts. Just a thought.

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Wow, I almost fell out of my chair when I saw these pictures. I would be interested in the bolts as well. I really wanted to split up my own tops, but this may be impossible. From the pictures, I assume you know someone who I should talk to about buying this material. If you could pm me or post on here, I would appreciate it.

 

[madhatte]

I know of a few logged-over sites that have more than a few board-feet of top-quality fine-grained spruce hidden in the stumpwood, below the butt swell. As far as I'm concerned, finding the wood isn't at all difficult. The tough part, for the OP, will be in getting the raw materials shipped overland. It might be best to come out here and get salvage/special forest products permits and hunt it down and frow-split it here, then ship back only the parts that will actually be used in instruments.