Small diameter tree - no obvious lean?

[ropensaddle]

Actually, the best solution is to avoid the hang up by using a plumb bob. As I get older, and older, (good accomplishment for a timber cutter) I find it more productive to take a little time and determine lean accurately.

One screw up will take up a lot of time, an hour lost is an hour lost. My normal cutting proceedure is to walk accross the top of the strip checking lean, a couple times a day. Remembering which trees lean how.

Not to say I don't get hung up...I do, probably once a week or so. Makes me mad. 5 minutes with a plumb bob will save an hour with ax and wedges and saves money too. A 3 oz sinker cost less than a new saw.

Plumb bob I have level and plumb by sight I don't need a bob.
I can look at the tree first then walk to the stump and tell you
without a doubt where it wants to fall! Experience is what that
consists of while you are trying to get that plumb bob out of
your tool box I will have it on the ground unless climbing is needed
but then what would be the use for a bob? I truly can see plumb
and level by sight I guess I have a gifted perception but I can visualize
a rifle scope cross hairs that stay square with the world a sort of built in
transit if you will!

 

[Dadatwins]

Yes, high wind does have an effect but the original post was ten inch
diameter trees and if you have some grunt, it would have to be gale
force winds with that small of tree. I am not saying to try the impossible
with this pole but I will tell ya I have pushed some you would never have
thought I could. If you do make one start small and don't try more than
you can handle and don't use it if property or injury could be likely and
after several you get the idea of its limitations.

I have 10" diameter pines here that reach 90' high, you ain't poking them over with no stick. As with any tool or person I think Clint Eastwood said it best, "A man has got to know his limitations"

 

[ropensaddle]

I have 10" diameter pines here that reach 90' high, you ain't poking them over with no stick. As with any tool or person I think Clint Eastwood said it best, "A man has got to know his limitations"

I agree on knowing limitations but I would bet money on me being
able to push with my stick but I know my limitations well!

 

[icthruu74]

In a situation like that, I'd be likely to say you took too small a notch on the face, and should have made an angled back-cut....

 

[Bushler]

Rope, I call bull####. If you can stand on a steep slope and accurately guage the lean of every tree on a strip by looking at the stump you have a gift I've never seen before. Limb influence, sweep, etc. is not readily discernable.


My plumb bob is in my pocket, not in my tool box. I use it constantly.

 

[Bushler]

Furthermore, if your vast experience warrants, bring your tools out west and we can see just how productive you are. I have plenty of trees you can demonstrate your abilities on. Most are on steep slopes, make sure your insurance is paid, and bring your 'poker pole'.

I'll cut on one strip, you on the other, and we'll scale our production at the end of the day.

Bring it.

 

[Humptulips]

I'm not going to jump into this plumb bob argument. Can say I never carried one but what do you expect from a hooktender. My pockets already stuffed with other stuff.
Anyway back to what I started out to say. I never had much trouble with straight trees but what about trees with sweep.
What tricks to do use when falling a tree with sweep both way? In other words those S shaped ones or maybe sweep or lean one way but limb heavy the other way. Those are the ones I walk around scratching my head on.

 

[ray benson]

In a situation like that, I'd be likely to say you took too small a notch on the face, and should have made an angled back-cut....

Please no angled back cut.

 

[Bushler]

Pistol butts, sweep both ways, forked tops, heavy branches, ground sloped two ways,...all the mysteries are easily solved with a three oz. lead sinker and a piece of string.

One of the few things in life that stays consistent is gravity.

 

[2dogs]

Pistol butts, sweep both ways, forked tops, heavy branches, ground sloped two ways,...all the mysteries are easily solved with a three oz. lead sinker and a piece of string.

One of the few things in life that stays consistent is gravity.

I don't know. Maybe the Canadians use metric gravity.

 

[Humptulips]

Pistol butts, sweep both ways, forked tops, heavy branches, ground sloped two ways,...all the mysteries are easily solved with a three oz. lead sinker and a piece of string.

One of the few things in life that stays consistent is gravity.

Ok, but when half the tree is in one side of your string and half on the other how do you decide which is heaviest?
Also I've seen many trees that had lean one direction but were limb heavy enough to take the tree the opposite direction.
I just use my best judgement but sometimes I get it wrong. As an example I fell a tree a couple months ago that I looked at for a long time wondering. Two about 4 foot spruce growed together for about 30 feet and limbs tied together above that. Couldn't fall at right angles to lean because of power lines. Your plum bob would have showed air with a tree on each side. Both had obvious lean but which was heaviest. With a lot of pounding it hit the ground.
Just wondered if you had any tricks up your sleeve beyond the plum bob.

 

[slowp]

Here's real life. The rigging crew needed some trees cut for guylines and room for more landing. This cutter was nearby so they got him and asked him to please drop the trees and by the way, don't block the road because we have trucks hauling. It is very steep, and both trees were leaning downhill towards the road. I wish I'd gotten the pumice cutbank in the picture.

So, he took his time and got one down where it was wanted, and the second one, which had a harder lean to it, went the intended direction after a lot of work. But, although it landed in the intended spot, it then rolled DOWN ONTO THE ROAD. Just another thing to worry about.

 

[Bushler]

Hump, when you look at the plumb line you see where the weight is, whether its from limbs, second tops etc. For example, a school marm, one leg might be straight up, the other leans slightly. If the crotch is tight then fall both togeather.

Heavy limbs high up have a lot of drag. If the tree leans only slightly, but has some heavy branches on the opposite side, go with the limbs. Spruce are a good example of this.

Checking lean against sweep, use some judgement on which side is heavier, and how far out of plumb the top is.

Point is, a $.50 sinker can save a $500 saw and/or a lot of wedging and frustration and time.

Next time you cut, take a plumb bob and try it. It takes very little time to know for sure, maybe 30 seconds for each of two sides.

I usually park above my strip and walk in the morning plumbing trees as I go. same going out at night, always plumbing and thinking ahead how I'm going to cut this or that.

The guys that taught me always carried plumb bobs. Part of your tools.

 

[Humptulips]

That's what I'm talking about. A few more details.
Good advice always appreciated. Thanks

 

[Bushler]

I bet your Dad carried a bob when he was topping tall spar trees.

 

[ropensaddle]

Furthermore, if your vast experience warrants, bring your tools out west and we can see just how productive you are. I have plenty of trees you can demonstrate your abilities on. Most are on steep slopes, make sure your insurance is paid, and bring your 'poker pole'.

I'll cut on one strip, you on the other, and we'll scale our production at the end of the day.

Bring it.

I will say we have steep ground here too and I do it here I have
an excellent equilibrium and cross hairs ingrained into my mind.
I have set windows and things of that nature and leveled my
trailer with no level. I can the put one on it and she bubbles.
I am sorry I did not mean to make you mad it is a gift I guess.
I would take you up on the west deal but I am not into production
type labor! :Eye:

 

[056kid]

When you are staring up an old ass fir that looks to have the same girth as a grain silo, You will get it wrong one day. I wish that i ws still out west!!

 

[redlaker]

I would take you up on the west deal but I am not into production
type labor! :Eye:

I wasn't aware there was any other kind of labor??? not in the industry that I work in anyways

 

[ropensaddle]

I wasn't aware there was any other kind of labor??? not in the industry that I work in anyways

Well I meant logging vrs climbing and felling near property!

 

[ropensaddle]

When you are staring up an old ass fir that looks to have the same girth as a grain silo, You will get it wrong one day. I wish that i ws still out west!!

Well ok if you say so but hell I would do the same with bob.