smoke jumpers

[P_woozel]

I worked as a sawyer the whole time on the Shots, was Sawboss the las three years. The reason I went crabbing in the NE Pacific was so I could get as far from the lure of the woods as possible. I'm slowly slipping back off the wagon it would seem. I got a contract# with the Forest Service for falling on fires. But man I miss that work.

 

[bvaught]

Fighting a forest fire sounds like fun. I have a chainsaw and a big set of balls. Does this qualify me to start being a smoke jumper?

 

[smokechaser]

njforestfire,

What differences are you thinking about? In the saw training program or just plain operationally? Ive been teaching s-212 since 93'. mabye I could help.

 

[Old Monkey]

I taught s-212 for a couple of years on my helicopter crew and was their saw boss. I was a sawyer on every crew except Prescott Hot Shots. I think swamping is the hardest job there is, especially in Southern California brush. For those of you who haven't been there imagine steep ash hills of solid 20' high brush that all burns like you would not believe. You have to keep cutting holes to throw brush into, in order to cut fireline. Sometimes you have three saws going at it and everyone else on your 20 man crew is grabbing and throwing brush. Its awesome once your done, but while your doing it, it can really bite.

I've got a question for you other firefighter sawyer types. I got my "C" certification in Washington State. There I was taught that while a sawyer is falling a big tree his swamper watches the top from a safe distance and blows a whistle if anything breaks out. When I moved to South Zone California they said the swamper should stand behind the sawyer with a hand on his backpack straps, ready to pull the cutter out of the way if something breaks out. I told them if anyone yanks on me while I've got a running chainsaw in my hands, I'll kick his ash. What do you guys think?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Until he cut his leg with a chainsaw. :alien:

Do you know that for a fact? Where did you get the info?

From my memory, he wrote that he had a too-close call and quit while he was ahead.

Did you read "Fire" Butch?

 

[MasterBlaster]

I seem to recall reading it on the inside cover or in the intro to "The Perfect Storm." It might have come from the Today show, he was interviewed about the book. I don't think I dreamed it up. :alien:

I haven't read "Fire."

 

[njforestfire]

I've got a question for you other firefighter sawyer types. I got my "C" certification in Washington State. There I was taught that while a sawyer is falling a big tree his swamper watches the top from a safe distance and blows a whistle if anything breaks out. When I moved to South Zone California they said the swamper should stand behind the sawyer with a hand on his backpack straps, ready to pull the cutter out of the way if something breaks out. I told them if anyone yanks on me while I've got a running chainsaw in my hands, I'll kick his ash. What do you guys think?

Anyone who would pull me while cutting.....I agree I would kick the crap out of them first and then report them to the Crew Boss or Div. Sup. as to making an unsafe condition. We were taught to use a long stick or a whistle to contact the person doing the sawing. Sometimes the swamper can't always be aware or watching the tree that is being felled. If I swamp, I know I want to be aware of EVERY tree that is being felled. Also as a sawyer, I almost always am looking at the kerf and then the top of the tree as to when it starts to go. If there happens to be some widow makers or the whole thing is a dead snag, I pay particular attention to the top...especially when the tree is actually falling. I have had too many close calls from branches either falling or getting hung up and breaking off that are thrown back towards the operator.

Smokechaser, I guess both. The local NPS was going to have a 40 hr course for 212 this week but cancelled due to flooding. 40 hours!!! When I took mine a few years back, it was only 16 hours class and 8 field. They were also going to hold a 16 hour 'refresher' which I was planning to attend. I haven't been around too many 'newbies' from 212 yet and I was wondering if you have? Do you see a difference is possibly some of the techniques or thought processes of the newer folks? I realizze that experience (time in the woods cutting) is probably the best training.

 

[njforestfire]

Fighting a forest fire sounds like fun. I have a chainsaw and a big set of balls. Does this qualify me to start being a smoke jumper?

Try a handcrew first and THEN see if you want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane.

Give me a shot crew anytime!

bvaught - try it, you might like it!! LOL
Sometimes it's not enough that you have a tree to worry about not killing or maming you but throw a large fire near by or heading your way and then see if it becomes fun.....I know my answer

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Butch,

Thanks, I'll look at the cover of "Storm" next time I'm at the bookstore.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Like I said, I may have dreamed it but I don't think so.

 

[Jumper]

Try a handcrew first and THEN see if you want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane.

The jumping is the easy part IMHO especially with the HUGE steerable chutes they are using these days. Nothing like being laden down with 100 lbs of gear when you get to the door.

 

[smokechaser]

OK,
Ive got the Instructors manual right here. Now, this is the new S-212 that was released February 2004, so it depends if the instructor is using the new or the old one, but the course is supposed to take 24-36 hours to complete. Now most instructors I know shorten it down a bit by skipping breaks and getting down to the field practicum asap. The days of the one day in the class and one in the woods is gone though. The best training is practice but with the new version of S-212, the power point presentation takes a while to get through. I've been keeping mine down to two days of class room and as many days in the field as it takes to initiate training and get through all the initial certs. Its probably pushing the limits of what we're supposed to for the course, but any more class room time puts young studs and studettes to sleep. In my experience every young guy who shows up new has OF COURSE run a chainsaw. So taking them out to the field shows just how much time they have spent running a saw pretty quick.
As far as the pulling on a sawyer or throwing a stick, I too would wipe that swamper all over the stump. I prefer the swamper be opposite side of the tree from me so we can eye contact or hand signal. If you are cutting correctly you should always be looking up while cutting. You'll see more movement in the top of the tree when it starts to commit than down at the kerf. Its hard to train yourself to cut this way. I've heard people say that watching the kerf or watching for the wedge to drop or stand is the only way to cut but, where does the danger come from??? ABOVE. You need to check your cut periodically for levelness, evenness, and amount of holding wood, but the saw should not be actively cutting if there is any danger of loose material from above, when you are examining your cut. (there is always a chance of loose material from above.)
hope this ramble make sense

 

[njforestfire]

OK,
I prefer the swamper be opposite side of the tree from me so we can eye contact or hand signal. If you are cutting correctly you should always be looking up while cutting. You'll see more movement in the top of the tree when it starts to commit than down at the kerf. Its hard to train yourself to cut this way.

Definately makes a lot of sense. Good point about the swamper being on opposite side of the cutter. I couldn't agree with you more about seeing movement from the top before the kerf...something i believe in 110%. I think that is one thing I tell students when doing the field work, is to watch the tops. You know how heavy those snags can be and there's a reason they call them 'widow makers'.

You would be surprised by who goes out for the saw course...some only have used a saw once or twice in their life. Your breakdown of 2 days class and as many in the field sounds right.

 

[P_woozel]

I've had to leave the stump quickly, often when the burning snag failed somewhere up high, and the thing that got me moving was a yank from my partner, often its smoky, loud and if its a burning snag, its ???? hot, Youre not in a good stance for running and the yank/directional tug helps you get the fook out of dodge. The whistle would be ineffective in a truly exposed situation. I taught everyone who swamped with me to make there presence known by grabbing my right side, never come up on the left while I was cutting brush, cause I often use the bar to sweep cut material to the left. Not to mention kicking any of my swampers butts would be quite an endeavor I liked linebacker sized guys for power. :umpkin:

 

[smokechaser]

Copy
nothing like a one hit wedge pounder.

 

[Old Monkey]

Is it me or are everyones fire juices starting to flow? I agree about watching the top while your cutting. Personally, I keep looking all around, the top, my cut, the drop zone, adjacent tops, etc.. I trust my swamper but think he's there to double my efforts not take tasks of my hands.

OK, OK, here's what I really miss. You rappel or hike to one of the ridge tops near the fire. You get your saw fueled up and spend an enjoyable afternoon falling everything in sight to put in a helispot in. When your done, you call a helicopter pilot to do a fly over and check out your handiwork. He says it looks great but can you take down that one tree on the bottom of the north side. You scramble down the hill to find a lunker at least twice your bar length, there are no houses, power lines, septic tanks or anyone driving by asking you "Why are you taking down that tree?" Its just the icing on the cake.

 

[Husky288XP]

I am thinking about joining the local fire crew here in PA. I was wondering what does it take to be Certified to fight fire here and out West. This would be mostly volunteer work for college.

 

[Old Monkey]

What kind of crew is it? What agency are you thinking applying to? US Forest Service? BLM? Some state crew? A private contractor? Most agencies put on classes at the beginning of fire season for their employees. Later in the season classes are rarely given. You need to apply early and for as many crews as you can. Out west the fire season begins late spring but your applications should be mailed out around January or February. I have not applied for a position since '99, so I am a little rusty on the process. Last I saw they were trying to put the whole process online and get rid of paper applications. For job listings check out this link. All the fire jobs are under Forestry Technician and Range Tech, series 0462 and 0455. Seasonal crew jobs won't appear until later. http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/a9fs.asp

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

My dad used to fight wildland fire and was a crew chief on the Indiana fire crew, and he was out west most of the season. That was back in the 80's. (In fact, the yellow helmet I'm wearing in my avatar is the helmet he wore when he was working them.) I got my red card for the IN crew in '98 before I came into the military, and it was a weekend class just to be a grunt. That was a terrible (meaning not many) year for fires, and I never got to do anything out of state. I'd get ahold of the PA DNR and see what they can tell you. Maybe they can hook you up, or tell you who could.

Jeff

 

[MOE]

I worked for the USFS on a fire crew in the mid ninetys. Most of the saws,(I'm pretty sure from boise) I used were stihl 038's. I was in california in 96 and they,(don't remember if it was federal or CDF) were handing out brand new homelite super XL's.