So, I Had Chinese Cylinder Kits Shipped In PIC Heavy

[Duke Thieroff]

So I was solicited to take a look at some cylinder kits produced in China. There were a few offerings, but I opted for parts I was familiar with.

Outlined in the following document are some of the things I have found about them and helped me to determine whether or not I want to offer these types of kits for sale.

I'm not a 100% expert on pistons and cylinders and all the finer details of them, but I'm going to pretend I know something for a bit.

MS440 "Good/Top" Quality Kit
Here's the complete kit, includes piston, cylinder, rings, clips and wrist pin.
Cast piston rings. Heavy cylinder casting, appears to be of "ok" quality.

A picture of some of the chamfering and the ports. Port shape is irregular.
Ring of death noticeable at top of plating is noticeable to the touch.
Piston skirts are not straight on the sides. Finish of piston is ok.

 

[Duke Thieroff]

MS 440 "lower" quality kit.

Casting appears nice.
Cast Rings.
Piston has faded finish. Possible difference in metallurgy?
Cylinder is lighter than light color kits.


Locating pins and installation appear of much lower quality than the other pistons.
Chamfering/port shape is quite rough. Jagged to the touch.

There is some pitting in the plating, looks like it was cast that way then plated over.

 

[Duke Thieroff]

Husqvarna 372 "Lower" Quality Kit

Plating in better condition, not pitted.
Chamfering somewhat better.
Ugly locating pins.

 

[Duke Thieroff]

Husqvarna 372 "Good" Quality

Plating decent.
Chamfering better than lower quality kits.
Locating pins better quality .
Heavier than lower quality jug.

 

[Duke Thieroff]

372 52mm Big Bore Kit

I was never a fan of Big Bore Kits, obviously there's some different things going on here from a standard 372 setup.

The piston is 2mm bigger than standard and it's windowed. I have no idea what the port timing is on this, but you have to ask yourself when it come to these "Who did the engineering on these kits?"

Chamfering and port shape once again are irregular and rough around the edges.

 

[Wagnerwerks]

Interesting... I don't know enough to ask any intelligent questions about them, but are you going to run one?

 

[Duke Thieroff]

Interesting... I don't know enough to ask any intelligent questions about them, but are you going to run one?

I do have a pair of 372s out there I could test em out on.......but they are nice with OEM stuff and I don't want to go messing around with em!

I'm not quite sure at this point in time I would really want to sell them.

I would prefer to sell a product I am comfortable with and can stand behind as opposed to something to sell just because I can sell it cheap.

Most of us enjoy working on our saws, but I can't say I've ever purchased a part with the hope that it will fail so I can replace it again, with that being said I wouldn't feel right offering that to a customer.

 

[blsnelling]

372 52mm Big Bore Kit

I was never a fan of Big Bore Kits, obviously there's some different things going on here from a standard 372 setup.

The piston is 2mm bigger than standard and it's windowed. I have no idea what the port timing is on this, but you have to ask yourself when it come to these "Who did the engineering on these kits?"

Chamfering and port shape once again are irregular and rough around the edges.

View attachment 387449 View attachment 387450 View attachment 387451 View attachment 387452 View attachment 387453 View attachment 387454

Those ports look HORRIBLE!

 

[1Alpha1]

Just remember, when you install the piston, the arrow on the top of it points towards the clutch.

I read that on the internet.

 

[watsonr]

that standard 372 jug looks pretty decent.

The cylinders are submerged in acid, why they appear white. It also has to do with how much silicon is added to the aluminum and other type metals. The rings look dark colored, all about metal type and content. Cabers are lighter colored and have a cast iron content of softer materials. The dark rings are made for NiSi cylinders and are supposed to last longer, but they are more brittle due to tinsel strength and don't seal as well as they should.

The big bore kits are typically the same timing as the standard bore, they didn't engineer them better to take advantage of the larger bore. A lot of these Asian makers don't make their own pistons or rings but use stuff from other makers to build "there" kits. There are only about 3 manufacturing plants in that part of the country. They make the brand named stuff and if it doesn't pass the grade, it goes as B or C grade and they sell to anybody willing to buy it. Did they come in a brown box, white box or labeled with a brand name?

 

[Duke Thieroff]

Those ports look HORRIBLE!

I can see the sales pitch now Brad!

"Unfinished cylinder kits ready to be ported. Why pay for the manufacturer to grind them when you're already paying a porter"

 

[Duke Thieroff]

that standard 372 jug looks pretty decent.

The cylinders are submerged in acid, why they appear white. It also has to do with how much silicon is added to the aluminum and other type metals. The rings look dark colored, all about metal type and content. Cabers are lighter colored and have a cast iron content of softer materials. The dark rings are made for NiSi cylinders and are supposed to last longer, but they are more brittle due to tinsel strength and don't seal as well as they should.

The big bore kits are typically the same timing as the standard bore, they didn't engineer them better to take advantage of the larger bore. A lot of these Asian makers don't make their own pistons or rings but use stuff from other makers to build "there" kits. There are only about 3 manufacturing plants in that part of the country. They make the brand named stuff and if it doesn't pass the grade, it goes as B or C grade and they sell to anybody willing to buy it. Did they come in a brown box, white box or labeled with a brand name?

White.

We can talk more over PM or email if you like. I don't want to post the manufacturer's name all over here.

 

[Duke Thieroff]

Just remember, when you install the piston, the arrow on the top of it points towards the clutch.

I read that on the internet.

If you read it in the Internet it must be true.

 

[pioneerguy600]

So much of this stuff out there now, how does the uninformed customer choose one of these kits and will they run long enough to give the purchaser a return on their money spent?

 

[lone wolf]

Just remember, when you install the piston, the arrow on the top of it points towards the clutch.

I read that on the internet.

The exhaust port.

 

[computeruser]

So much of this stuff out there now, how does the uninformed customer choose one of these kits and will they run long enough to give the purchaser a return on their money spent?

They do it by buying OEM and skipping out on taking a gamble with all this AM trash.

 

[Definitive Dave]

They do it by buying OEM and skipping out on taking a gamble with all this AM trash.

OOOOOOOORRRRRRRRR by reading and comprehending the research put in by folks like Duke and Randy and Brad and others who figure things out and spread knowledge rather than posting crap ad nauseum to the benefit of pretty much nobody.
DDave

 

[blsnelling]

I can see the sales pitch now Brad!

"Unfinished cylinder kits ready to be ported. Why pay for the manufacturer to grind them when you're already paying a porter"

Lol. That was good

 

[computeruser]

Tangential: Are shops rebuilding customer saws with these kits, or are they primarily/exclusively marketed to individual DIY types and/or saw-flippers?

 

[Duke Thieroff]

So much of this stuff out there now, how does the uninformed customer choose one of these kits and will they run long enough to give the purchaser a return on their money spent?

I think there is some high quality aftermarket stuff out there, for sure.

Meteor has spoken for itself in reputation time and time again.

I know there were some issues in the beginning of cylinder production people weren't pleased with and I have yet to inspect them.

I'm positive the stuff Randy sells as good quality is, but for something that may cost 1/3-1/4 the cost of OEM there has to be some understanding.

This aftermarket stuff, I'm sure, has made a lot of saws run reasonably well and reliably that would have otherwise been dumped in the scrap heap. It has also let a lot of guys become willing to take a chance and wrench on their own stuff because it's not a $300 shot in the dark.

Another reason it may be cheaper, other than quality, is that some many stops in the supply chain have been removed. Every company in business needs to operate economically and generate profit. Add 4 more stops that all need to make profit in the supply chain and you have an inflated retail price.