some equipment questions need some help please

[cffr]

i have some equipment questions that maybe you guys can help me with as im not finding very many suitable options. first some background on my situation im doing thinning of pinion pine and pinion juniper which anyone who knows this wood knows it isnt very big. all the cutting and processing will be done on blm land as the county i work in is over 98% federal land so any equipment i use has to have a ground impact of less than 8 psi. i am going to be hauling the beams down to a chomper processor for firewood and the slash and small trees will go to chips for char and pellets. what i am looking for is equipment to skid and forward the logs to the processor that wont tear up the ground and meet the 8 psi requirement have looked into several things atv with a log trailer is pretty well out because of damage it could do horses aint an option with all the retarded mustangs around. looked into the jonsered iron horse and looked like a great fit emailed tilton equipment the U.S.A. distributor for them and was told they dont have a dealer very close to me so they refused to send me any information at all. Am also looking at the Trezmac oxtrac skidder and trying to get more information from them on the machines available. So im wondering if anyone knows of these machines and can tell me more about them or knows any other options that fit the requirements that i can look into. also this is my first post on this account had an account on here for several years that my email got hacked and everything in there messed up so i lost everything related to that account. any help will be greatly appreciated

 

[northmanlogging]

have only seen the oxtrack thing working on video... but they did have one on display at a log show last year, they arn't very big, but the one I seen looked put together ok... wouldn't want to use it in any big wood, and not real sure how the rubber tracks they got would hold up (look like conveyer belts with angle iron strapped to em...)

Don't know enough about ground impact stuff, but why not a small skidder with big flotation tires, like those swamp logger dudes got, or duals? I'm thinking along the lines of a Garrett 10-15, or a Deere 440? The old 440's were only 12000# and the Garretts are less than that even, just my uneducated opinion.

 

[cffr]

thanks for the reply unfortunately both of those options are to big on ground pressure im starting to see that it will have to have tracks to meet the specs as everything with tire seems to be to much impact. the trees arent that big juniper is more of a bush the way it grows 10 to 12 foot high is a pretty good sized tree and unfortunately cause it is a thin no yarder or anything like that could be used with any success and has to be small enough to maneuver.

 

[slowp]

Ah, but yarders are used all the time up here for thinnings. However, I don't see how it would be economical to do so in the PJ country.

How about a high track cat?

Here's a few pictures of yarder thinning units. We have good trees and stumps for rigging, most of the time. I am aware that yarder logging got a bum rap in the Southwest because somebody logged a partial cut and convinced the logging and land management people that 100 foot wide corridors were necessary.
At least that is the story that was told to me along with how ugly it made the unit because of the 100 foot wide corridors.

We try to make 12 foot wide corridors up here.

View attachment 274157View attachment 274154View attachment 274155

 

[northmanlogging]

Maybe you could edumacate me on the math for psi by my math I'm if I stand on one foot I'm over yer limit by .611? so yer fallers would have to be under 285# and wear a size 12 boot or bigger?

 

[redprospector]

For production in the type of PJ you're describing I would recomend a tracked skid steer with a grapple bucket. Don't bother skidding 10' Junipers, just pick up 6 or 8 or them in the grapple bucket and carry them out. My Bobcat T320 has (I think) 4.2 psi ground pressure.
Be sure to run that Juniper through the Chomper while it's still good and green. If you let it dry out a little bit it will just shatter on you if it's like the Juniper we have around here. The Pinon will process fine anytime.
If you're not going to run a masticater (mulcher) you could get by with a smaller skid steer. But If it were me, I'd look into a T320 size machine and a bunching head.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

Maybe you could edumacate me on the math for psi by my math I'm if I stand on one foot I'm over yer limit by .611? so yer fallers would have to be under 285# and wear a size 12 boot or bigger?

Hahaha. I can see the help wanted add now.
Wanted: Big footed, skinny chainsaw operators wanted. Maximum weight 150 lbs. Minimum shoe size 11 EE
2 years chainsaw experience prefered. But if you are a self starter with big feet, and a narrow ass, on the job training is possible.
Apply in person or send resume with a picture, certified weight ticket, and a notorized letter of shoe size.

:hmm3grin2orange:

Andy

 

[cffr]

thanks guys for all the responses! the focus of the project is mule deer and elk habitat restoration and hopefully proving it economically feasible to harvest pj on a larger scale. its kind of complicated how the thinning will work basically make it look natural no open lanes leave a tree and cut everything 10 feet around it and stagger the trees so it aint easy to put a new road in or anything like that as it will be reseeded and want to make it better habitat. would love to use a yarder but dont think i would have the lift as a tree over 15 feet is hard to find and laying it out trying to weave it through would be time consuming and difficult. as far as ground disturbance and psi is concerned that is a whole mess that anyone who dealt with contracts on public land or environmentalist extremists know most of them dont want you to do anything at all except stay on paved roads and look at it from a distance. PJ aint a very valuable wood no timber value cause of the size mainly used for firewood and at $120 for a full cord split and delivered and stacked here and no major market in 100 mile distance so keeping costs down is a priority with equipment that will do the job and one of the reasons i am looking at some of the equipment i am the oxtrac lists fuel consumption at a gallon per hour and the chomper besides being a great machine is automated and only needs one person to run it no log deck or extra equipment to run it. Again thanks for the input its much appreciated may not get rich doing this but who can beat working outdoors doing what you love!

 

[redprospector]

thanks guys for all the responses! the focus of the project is mule deer and elk habitat restoration and hopefully proving it economically feasible to harvest pj on a larger scale. its kind of complicated how the thinning will work basically make it look natural no open lanes leave a tree and cut everything 10 feet around it and stagger the trees so it aint easy to put a new road in or anything like that as it will be reseeded and want to make it better habitat. would love to use a yarder but dont think i would have the lift as a tree over 15 feet is hard to find and laying it out trying to weave it through would be time consuming and difficult. as far as ground disturbance and psi is concerned that is a whole mess that anyone who dealt with contracts on public land or environmentalist extremists know most of them dont want you to do anything at all except stay on paved roads and look at it from a distance. PJ aint a very valuable wood no timber value cause of the size mainly used for firewood and at $120 for a full cord split and delivered and stacked here and no major market in 100 mile distance so keeping costs down is a priority with equipment that will do the job and one of the reasons i am looking at some of the equipment i am the oxtrac lists fuel consumption at a gallon per hour and the chomper besides being a great machine is automated and only needs one person to run it no log deck or extra equipment to run it. Again thanks for the input its much appreciated may not get rich doing this but who can beat working outdoors doing what you love!

Hopefully you will be getting paid a little something for the thinning, so that the firewood can be "value added". Otherwise you've got a hard row to hoe trying to make firewood pay for a thinning opperation like that.
I still think that a tracked skid steer is your best option. The Oxtrac may only use a gallon per hour, but you're going to spend a lot more hours trying to get done.
I've been doing this type of thinning for quite a while now, and this is what experience has dictated to me. Use the largest equipment that the ground pressure specs will allow you to use. The more ground you can cover in a day, the quicker you are done, the more money you make, or loose, whichever the case may be. If you choose to run with too small of equipment, I'm concerned that your operation may suffer a slow, agonizing death. There is a fine line between making it, or not in the kind of project you are talking about.
The Chomper is a good, low maintenance processor (I've got one). If you've already got it, you know what it's capable of. If you don't already have one you may be surprised at the output. The Chomper is capable of turning out 1 to 2 cords per hour depending on the size of the wood. Given the size trees you are dealing with, don't expect more than 3/4 cord an hour with a good operator.

Good luck, you've got a tough go in front of you.

Andy

 

[springboard]

skid steer

Check out the ASV100 skid steer with the dangle head grapple saw on the new listings page for forestryequipmentsales

 

[4x4American]

Not sure if you've already seen this video, but the machine he uses might work out fer ya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxWUz1Qc51g

 

[cffr]

Not sure if you've already seen this video, but the machine he uses might work out fer ya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxWUz1Qc51g

i was very interested in the iron horse which is very similar but couldnt get any info. tilton is the importer in the U.S. and said they dont have a dealer near me and refused to send me any info. not sure if i can use a machine like that though because it is on federal land so the requirements are strict safety wise and osha requirements state an enclosed safety cab with multiple exits which really has me wondering how i could use a bobcat or any other tracked skid steer.

red prospector i dont have a chomper yet thinking of getting the super 16. do you know of any delimbers that work on pj?

 

[redprospector]

i was very interested in the iron horse which is very similar but couldnt get any info. tilton is the importer in the U.S. and said they dont have a dealer near me and refused to send me any info. not sure if i can use a machine like that though because it is on federal land so the requirements are strict safety wise and osha requirements state an enclosed safety cab with multiple exits which really has me wondering how i could use a bobcat or any other tracked skid steer.

red prospector i dont have a chomper yet thinking of getting the super 16. do you know of any delimbers that work on pj?

As far as multiple exits go, the back window is your 2nd (emergency) exit on all the skid steers I've ever used.
For the job your doing you could save a few bucks getting a simplex 14 with the auto option, but get the one with the biger pump. Unless you're going to get into some bigger stuff a little later. As far as delimbers go...I've got Stihl's. The MS261 works good on the smaller stuff, my next option is a 460.

Andy

 

[cffr]

i was thinking the super 16 cause of the size of the bases around here are bigger but they dont go up to high and if im spending the money would rather get the bigger one now than need it and not have it. im partial to a husky 372xp running a 20" bar and windsor skip tooth chain best set up i have found had lots of problems with air filters on stihls plugging up before i could run half a tank havent ran a newer one though so that might have changed.

 

[redprospector]

i was thinking the super 16 cause of the size of the bases around here are bigger but they dont go up to high and if im spending the money would rather get the bigger one now than need it and not have it. im partial to a husky 372xp running a 20" bar and windsor skip tooth chain best set up i have found had lots of problems with air filters on stihls plugging up before i could run half a tank havent ran a newer one though so that might have changed.

Makes sence on the super 16.
For chainsaws...Pick yer poison.
They paying you anything for this, or just the wood?

Andy

 

[cffr]

im going for no pay from it for several reasons, if no money is changing hands the bureacracy is alot less. it takes 5 years from the time they want to do a project to the time the money is there in the budget cycle then you got to deal with all the enviromental lawsuits to try and stop it and delay it a couple more years major pia. The numbers work out to do it without getting paid for the clearing just getting the wood and helping with reseeding. I will still do paying contracts when they come out but having the access to the wood is the most important part. Thats the main reason for the 8 psi ground impact anything over that requires alot more studies on the land that are much more expensive and take lots of time to complete before work is done