Splicing Loopies
- Thread starter Climber2
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Talk to Nick Araya, loopies he should be abe to just walk you through.
I use a coathanger on a carabiner, tape and a needle.
For stitching I take a few strands from a burried yarn to lock the backsplices down.
The only technical thing you need to know is the formula for the sliding burry lenght.
I'll ask a buddy how long it should be and he'll tell me "Two fid lengths"....okay, what is a fid length in inches?
I should write that down somewhere one of these days...
I use a coathanger on a carabiner, tape and a needle.
For stitching I take a few strands from a burried yarn to lock the backsplices down.
The only technical thing you need to know is the formula for the sliding burry lenght.
I'll ask a buddy how long it should be and he'll tell me "Two fid lengths"....okay, what is a fid length in inches?
I should write that down somewhere one of these days...
Isn't it 22 times the diameter of the rope? I can't remember the if that is correct. I lost my Toss video in a break up with a girlfriend. Strange thing for a girl to want to keep. I used to get b1tched at for watching it all the time or being online here and spliceing to all hours of the night.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
I thought that's what it was.
5/8 is 2 fid lengths or 27.5 inches.
So I guess i forgot to add the measuring stick to the tool list.
5/8 is 2 fid lengths or 27.5 inches.
So I guess i forgot to add the measuring stick to the tool list.
dbeck
ArboristSite Operative
fid length chart
http://www.samsonrope.com/home/newcommfish/hard-aluminum-tubular-fids.cfm?ProdNum=189
I hope I did this right...I have not posted a link before. This page will have a chart on it w/ fid lengths. This should help some of you out.
http://www.samsonrope.com/home/newcommfish/hard-aluminum-tubular-fids.cfm?ProdNum=189
I hope I did this right...I have not posted a link before. This page will have a chart on it w/ fid lengths. This should help some of you out.
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
The bury varies depending on who made the rope, what it's made of, the construction, and the diameter. For a polyester single-braid it hovers around a fid and short fid to around 2 fids long. (1 fid = 21 rope diameters....usually)
It's not exact science, but it's best to go by the manufacturers directions (which you can obtain from ALL good manufacturers). Measure carefully!
A long bury with a nice smooth taper is best.
love
nick
It's not exact science, but it's best to go by the manufacturers directions (which you can obtain from ALL good manufacturers). Measure carefully!
A long bury with a nice smooth taper is best.
love
nick
Thanks for all the info. I did find instructions at Yale's page.
http://www.yalecordage.com/html/splicing_instructions.html
Mike
http://www.yalecordage.com/html/splicing_instructions.html
Mike
dbeck
ArboristSite Operative
As far as the technical things go...the sliding bury part(coining JPS)...be sure the line enters the braid on one side and exits the oppsite side. That is, if you started your 2 fid length bury on the left side, it should exit the right side. Failure to do it this way could result in slippage, so I've been told.(courtesy of Mr. Gere)
I hope that makes some sense, I have no pics or drawings. Does anyone know where to find arborist - specific splicing instructions?
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
dbeck, Are you explaining the difference between a locking brummell and a normal non-locking brummell?
According to ANSI, splicing shall (SHALL) be done in accordance with manufacturers specifications. Yale, New England, and Samson (who I consider the Big 3 in arborist rope manufacturing in the US) all have splicing direction on their websites for the Yalex/Tenex/Nerex rope. Only New England offers the locking version of the brummell (though they show the mobius brummell, which is more complicated and tough to do in some bulky ropes). So technically, we should be using the locked brummell so much...unless it's Nerex....have you ever seen nerex?
The locked version usually does not score as high in breaking tests. The regular version scores higher, but is more likely (though very UNLIKELY) to slip/fail at low loads (which is what much of our climbing is at...one-three hundred pounds on a rope that can hold many thousand. It is for this reason that I almost always use the locked version of the brummell. I have on occasion used the "normal" version upon request or when the strength is crucial (sometimes on dead-eye slings for rigging out big wood).
So, yeah, play around with the brummell and learn the differences in the locked and unlocked versions. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.
love
nick
dbeck
ArboristSite Operative
loopie thread?
I was trying to explain the adjustable splice portion of the loopie. Adjustable slings are shown in Yales directions, but it shows one fid length instead of two and they make no point of exiting the opposite side for the adjustable splice.
The reason I posted it was because climber2 put up a link w/ yales directions and I remembered that. Did not want climber2 to make improper loopies!
I was trying to explain the adjustable splice portion of the loopie. Adjustable slings are shown in Yales directions, but it shows one fid length instead of two and they make no point of exiting the opposite side for the adjustable splice.
The reason I posted it was because climber2 put up a link w/ yales directions and I remembered that. Did not want climber2 to make improper loopies!
dbeck
ArboristSite Operative
strength decrease?
say you are using 5/8 tenex (17100 avg strength, lbs) to splice these loopies. How much strength do you guys feel you retain in that scenario? This is different than an eye splice in that you are using two strands in the girth hitch loopies form...just curious how you see it!
say you are using 5/8 tenex (17100 avg strength, lbs) to splice these loopies. How much strength do you guys feel you retain in that scenario? This is different than an eye splice in that you are using two strands in the girth hitch loopies form...just curious how you see it!
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'll start.
17000 ABS. Double it...now you're at 34,000. Give about 10-12% because of the splice, so you're down to about 30,000.
The angle of the dangle of the girth hitch may also detract some strength.
love
nick
17000 ABS. Double it...now you're at 34,000. Give about 10-12% because of the splice, so you're down to about 30,000.
The angle of the dangle of the girth hitch may also detract some strength.
love
nick
GFB
ArboristSite Lurker
Hi Everyone,
I just purchased some 3/4" Tenex and made my first loopie. I could not find the exact instructions, so I used a 1/2" one purchased from Sherrill as my guide. I also used the info from the manufacturer's site on fid lengths etc. I had determined that the finished buried section was 1 long (16") and 1 short (4 3/4") fid length. After completion, that was not true, and it's only 16". I realize now that the rope passing inside changed the outside rope far more than I would have guessed. Do you think this is enough to secure it? The total amount of rope used for this sling was 15', so it gives you an idea of the finished size. Also, the buried section of my store bought whoopie is 8 1/2". Does this work because the length of the section is tight against the tree instead of against itself? Your thoughts please.
Thanks,
Gary
I just purchased some 3/4" Tenex and made my first loopie. I could not find the exact instructions, so I used a 1/2" one purchased from Sherrill as my guide. I also used the info from the manufacturer's site on fid lengths etc. I had determined that the finished buried section was 1 long (16") and 1 short (4 3/4") fid length. After completion, that was not true, and it's only 16". I realize now that the rope passing inside changed the outside rope far more than I would have guessed. Do you think this is enough to secure it? The total amount of rope used for this sling was 15', so it gives you an idea of the finished size. Also, the buried section of my store bought whoopie is 8 1/2". Does this work because the length of the section is tight against the tree instead of against itself? Your thoughts please.
Thanks,
Gary
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
The burry should not be against the tree, but the bend that the pully passes through. The sharp bend adds friction, you should try to dress the bury out before stting the block too.
with 5/8 tenex the burry should be around 28inches so I think, so you may be a bit short the there Gary.
with 5/8 tenex the burry should be around 28inches so I think, so you may be a bit short the there Gary.
GFB
ArboristSite Lurker
Thanks John!
The woopie is the one with the shorter bury, and I was wondering if it's because it's pulled tight against the tree over the entire length of the buried section. The loopie is mainly against itself, with some on the tree on each end of the bury. Do the requirements change as the rope changes diameter, or should it just change proportionately like the fid length? If I stick with the 1/2" store bought as a model, the finished one should be 20 3/4", so a fid and a half should do it.
Anyone know what source can provide this info?
Thanks,
Gary
The woopie is the one with the shorter bury, and I was wondering if it's because it's pulled tight against the tree over the entire length of the buried section. The loopie is mainly against itself, with some on the tree on each end of the bury. Do the requirements change as the rope changes diameter, or should it just change proportionately like the fid length? If I stick with the 1/2" store bought as a model, the finished one should be 20 3/4", so a fid and a half should do it.
Anyone know what source can provide this info?
Thanks,
Gary
Kneejerk Bombas
ArboristSite King
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2001
- Messages
- 36,971
- Reaction score
- 9,983
Nick, Are you talking about a loopie, whoopie or splice? What configuration? And what is your source for this info? I have never seen a loss as low as 10-12% for a loopie or whoopie.
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
In Yales printed instructions for adjustable slings (whoopies)....
WARNING: Derate rope strength 12% when using adjustable splice.
Makes sense. Where the tail comes out, there is a drastic change happening in the rope. There is a big bump in the strands that are made to make the opening for the tail to come out of.
love
nick
WARNING: Derate rope strength 12% when using adjustable splice.
Makes sense. Where the tail comes out, there is a drastic change happening in the rope. There is a big bump in the strands that are made to make the opening for the tail to come out of.
love
nick
TreeJunkie
ArboristSite Guru
Does anyone have a set of directions for splicing loopies,,, i see yales woopie directions, but thats not what we are talking about here. What splicing tool do you guys usually use?
dbeck
ArboristSite Operative
wire coat hangers work good...
