Split tail hitch question.

[Blakesmaster]

Trying to figure out a way to rappel down my climbing line with my split tail when I tie off the butt log for a little extra pull w/ my climbing line. Or even a way to foot lock ascend with my split tail. I climb on Safety Blue High Vee 1/2 inch 16 strand and my split tail looks to be the same style but maybe it's a bit thicker. Curious what hitches anyone with a similar setup has used for this. Tried several variations on the Blakes, 3 wrap and five wrap, they all lock up and I can't descend. Tried a knot my old boss showed me, same deal. I don't want to get into pulleys and thingamabobs and all that jazzum, no more jingle jangle. If I can't figure out a decent knot to use with the equipment I already own I'll just pick up a figure 8 and use that for rappelling. I would just like to use this split tail I bought because it looked useful. Any ideas?

 

[clearance]

You can cut a deep V in the top of the butt log and use your split tail that way. Then pull up a running bowline. The rope will not stay attached when you fall it, it will come off after the butt log is committed. I have only used a tautline tied back to the same line for this.

Using a climbing line for rigging is a no no, for some.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Yeah, I know most don't like to use it, but it's not really rigging... Just a little extra pull from the groundies to coax 'er on over. I know I could just drop down on the regular blakes but I kinda like to make sure my bowline is set just right before I descend. Not to mention I bought this deally for 30 bucks and wanna find some use for it! My original intent was to use it for ascending w/ a foot lock on a tied off rope therefore allowing me to use only one rope and no jingle-jangle to navigate a tree. But I can't seem to find an appropriate knot for that either.

 

[treemandan]

If I'm descending srt on my climbing rope I use a VT with a figure eight device below it attached to a delta where my saddle leg strap attaches. My saddle is the Butterfly I. To descend one hand goes on top of the VT to let it slide and the other hand feeds the figure eight device controlling 95% of my body weight. To stop just let go of the VT and it locks.

I use this technique when rigging down spars to set ropes and blocks. I never use climbing ropes to pull over spars.

I am not doing it right at all! I don't back up my 8 and always use my line to pull spars ( by hand). I do put a log down so my rope don't get mushed up though.

 

[treemandan]

Trying to figure out a way to rappel down my climbing line with my split tail when I tie off the butt log for a little extra pull w/ my climbing line. Or even a way to foot lock ascend with my split tail. I climb on Safety Blue High Vee 1/2 inch 16 strand and my split tail looks to be the same style but maybe it's a bit thicker. Curious what hitches anyone with a similar setup has used for this. Tried several variations on the Blakes, 3 wrap and five wrap, they all lock up and I can't descend. Tried a knot my old boss showed me, same deal. I don't want to get into pulleys and thingamabobs and all that jazzum, no more jingle jangle. If I can't figure out a decent knot to use with the equipment I already own I'll just pick up a figure 8 and use that for rappelling. I would just like to use this split tail I bought because it looked useful. Any ideas?

You are supposed to back up an 8 and if I did I would use small dia cordage with a three wrap prussick, but I don't.

 

[treemandan]

I don't back up an eight if I'm just descending srt. If I'm working on the way down I use the VT for work positioning.

AND that is why I love you so much! Think I oughta stop crushing my climbing lines? They seem to take it just fine.

 

[treemandan]

Hey it's your climbing line!

Every now and then on some light stuff I use the tail of mine as a zip line.

Yes, Yes, the ole" YO, grab my tail and hold it tight!" Poor guys have no idea what's gonna happen next.
I look at it as a test. If they drop the rope before the branch hits em they are paying attention.

 

[Bearcreek]

Im curious about the idea of backing up a figure 8 when descending SRT. Rock climbers were using 8's before tree guys were and they don't back them up at all. I understand if you're doing work on the way down but if you're just coming down.......?

 

[2FatGuys]

Im curious about the idea of backing up a figure 8 when descending SRT. Rock climbers were using 8's before tree guys were and they don't back them up at all. I understand if you're doing work on the way down but if you're just coming down.......?

I started out on rock. We never backed up an 8 when climbing for recreation. OSHA had no jurisdiction over guys on rock (unless they were there for work - the "O" in OSHA stands for "Occupational"). When we were contracted to place permanent bolts on climbing routes, we did have to back up our 8's. We used small diameter chord with a prussick above the 8. In the trees, I never do long decscent on just a hitch and I never drop on an 8 without backup. I'm all about safety on the ropes....

 

[treemandan]

I started out on rock. We never backed up an 8 when climbing for recreation. OSHA had no jurisdiction over guys on rock (unless they were there for work - the "O" in OSHA stands for "Occupational"). When we were contracted to place permanent bolts on climbing routes, we did have to back up our 8's. We used small diameter chord with a prussick above the 8. In the trees, I never do long decscent on just a hitch and I never drop on an 8 without backup. I'm all about safety on the ropes....

You are starting to change my thinking. I would like to see an 8 with a eye cast in it for the attachment of a safety friction hitch?
I often rely on a soft lock on the 8 and my lanyard while slicing something up. It seems to hold very nice BUT I keep in mind it is for one position only, before I move again I check it.
I saw a pretty hairy fall the first time I rappelled around age 14 or 15. My first " real" rappell of course. It was a a cool summer camp with a ropes course and I was belayed over the rock while tending my own 8. It was still very exihilerating AND with a check confirmation from the guy on belay I worked my shakey feet over the edge... It was a breeze. So much in fact that most people went over fine and the guy on belay got complacent, that is when Barney step up to the edge. Barney was a city kid who really didn't want to do it except for his "posse" pushed him. Well Barney let go the second he looked down over the edge and that is exactly where he went... fast. He just let go, we all saw this from below.
I was at the bottom looking up with everybody else so I didn't get to see the reaction on the belayer's face when he realized what happened BUT I did take him a long time for him to do something about it.
Barney sailed down 150 feet, screaming all the way, before to came to halt with his toes bouncing gently upon the jagged rock below him. Barney screamed like that for 2 days.

 

[2FatGuys]

You are starting to change my thinking. I would like to see an 8 with a eye cast in it for the attachment of a safety friction hitch?

Just use a small diameter loop to add a prussick above the eight and clip the loop into the same biner that holds the 8. It really doesn't get in the way or cause any problems at all. My other climber always hooks his prussick backup into a second biner rather than the same one... "just in case"

I often rely on a soft lock on the 8 and my lanyard while slicing something up. It seems to hold very nice BUT I keep in mind it is for one position only, before I move again I check it.

Untended soft locks are not intended to hold personnel in a safety critical situation. The soft lock should either be actively manually tended, or tied off. All it takes is a branch brushing by the wrong way or you sweeping an elbow by the soft lock... then you'd be like Barney... on a quick elevator down!

I saw a pretty hairy fall the first time I rappelled around age 14 or 15......
Barney sailed down 150 feet, screaming all the way, before to came to halt with his toes bouncing gently upon the jagged rock below him. Barney screamed like that for 2 days.

After a 150' fall, he's lucky he was still a "he".... the shock load from a long fall can easily dislodge the family jewels (or at least make you think so). The guy responsible for belay should have been IMMEDIATELY fired. That kind of irresponsibility can be lethal. As a former BSA "Climb On" instructor, I have seen lots of potentially bad situations. Thankfully, I have only been around one really bad climbing accident.

Be safe... take the time to add that fail safe security measure every time you climb.

 

[treemandan]

Just use a small diameter loop to add a prussick above the eight and clip the loop into the same biner that holds the 8. It really doesn't get in the way or cause any problems at all. My other climber always hooks his prussick backup into a second biner rather than the same one... "just in case"



Untended soft locks are not intended to hold personnel in a safety critical situation. The soft lock should either be actively manually tended, or tied off. All it takes is a branch brushing by the wrong way or you sweeping an elbow by the soft lock... then you'd be like Barney... on a quick elevator down!



After a 150' fall, he's lucky he was still a "he".... the shock load from a long fall can easily dislodge the family jewels (or at least make you think so). The guy responsible for belay should have been IMMEDIATELY fired. That kind of irresponsibility can be lethal. As a former BSA "Climb On" instructor, I have seen lots of potentially bad situations. Thankfully, I have only been around one really bad climbing accident.

Be safe... take the time to add that fail safe security measure every time you climb.

Actually with the lanyard I am pretty laid back, even with a bigger saw, with just the softy BUT No more. Just the recollection of my boy Barney( that was his name) was enough. I knew I was a pig in a poke with doing it and let me just tell you about that guy on belay... I din't know his ass from Adam so it was all me anyway.
I have just the thing to tie it off right but that is only when I use an 8. Sometimes I come down the same way I got up, on my spikes, that is when I use an 8 or for just a quick up and down with my acscender rig as backup. When really working I have like 6 ropes or something I don't know but HELL I'm tied in!
I use the reverse of Ekka's techinque where you keep the lanyard tight and just use the top for movement and the lanyard to capture the movement though I don't have to tie into my top rope if the spar is nice. What's my rush?
The only reason I use my climb line to drop spars is that by that time everybody abandons me.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Wow. You guys went a bit crazy here. I just picked up an 8 today. Guess I'll toss this little split tail in the can. I was only trying to find a quick, easy knot to rappel on when I'm coming down the spar. I wouldn't be working from it so having to back up an eight seems a bit ridiculous to me. Time is money, folks.

 

[lync]

Backing up the figure 8 is rediculous until your elbow on your controling hand hits a branch and you loose your grip on the rope and fall to your death. Let me explain. Lanyard into the spar, disconnect your climbingline from your saddle, tie a running bowline around the spar. Back that knot with a rediculous backup knot. Leave the splittail attached to your saddle and install the 8 below your friction hitch. Control your friction hitch with your left hand and the line below the 8 with your right. If you loose control of the rope your friction hitch will save your butt. Rope backup, I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Corey

 

[I can do it]

You could use a short strap with a biner on both ends. The strap should come up a bit short so when you put the through each biner it chokes the log. I have a short friction saver I spliced up with a ring on end and fixie on the other. It's about 16" long total. I use that or a rope guide to rapel down off a spar. Anyway the little 16" friction saver worked on just about every removal I've done, like I said it doesn't make its way all the way around the spar to work, you just a little more friction on the way down which isnt a bad thing.

 

[treemandan]

Wow. You guys went a bit crazy here. I just picked up an 8 today. Guess I'll toss this little split tail in the can. I was only trying to find a quick, easy knot to rappel on when I'm coming down the spar. I wouldn't be working from it so having to back up an eight seems a bit ridiculous to me. Time is money, folks.

Crazy? Yes, I have always wondered if by tossing my 200 foot line over a 199 foot drop and hopping on just the 8 and a great pair of gloves would be construed as crazy.
I guess not a ansi standard but I have usually felt OK with the naked practice in many situations. I have seen many men spike lanyardless all the way up, big dia. too.
I would like to see just how committed to your slogan of 'time is money'. I know, I have a stopwatch and I make it run to the truck to tell me how long it has been. 10 seconds? That's a long time. You can tie six hitches on some 8 mil that rarely sees action in that amount of time.
It takes a lot more dilegence to pilot ones'self down a spar on just an 8. I guess it is something left for professional discretion. The real problem with mine is that its just about wore out.

 

[I can do it]

why get an 8? Before I used to use a fancy high dollar friction saver I would tie to my tag line being used to pull the spar over with just a williams biner or any biner I had but prefer the williams with a munter hitch. I think a munter on a biner works better then an 8.

 

[Bearcreek]

I've got an 8 with a rope going through tattood on my arm, so I kind of have to keep using one.

 

[I can do it]

Hmmmm.....I have a heart with a dagger through it on my arm, guess I should be stabbing people through the heart, maybe I'll start with the guy who killed my son. Good thinking.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

why get an 8? Before I used to use a fancy high dollar friction saver I would tie to my tag line being used to pull the spar over with just a williams biner or any biner I had but prefer the williams with a munter hitch. I think a munter on a biner works better then an 8.

It is a convenient way to go down, but it is counter to ANSI to suspend a worker on a rigging line.

If there is an accident where this was being done, then the company may be in big trouble.

Yes, I have always wondered if by tossing my 200 foot line over a 199 foot drop and hopping on just the 8 and a great pair of gloves would be construed as crazy.

On the Treehouse Project with Gerry B. we were supposed to descend on and ID or similar advanced device. But I knew what I was doing and went down a very long rap on my Piranha.

Let us just say that I was getting a wee bit concerned after 70 feet or so and all that open space under me. Redwoods are soooooo much bigger then what I am used to!