Square filing (again)

[John Ellison]

Normally, I grind all my work chains but keep a file handy and touch up if I'm in the mood. Another post got me to thinking and I am wondering how others hold the file. Holding the file in one hand(without a handle) and only using about the last 2/3 of the file, into the tooth that I am holding with my thumb and other hand on the bar. Thats my method. Was wondering what some different ones were, for in the woods.
Also does any body else touch the drive link with the file or stone when grinding?
Except for costing 7+ bucks those Oberg double ended files worked good for me because I could use both ends and the complete length instead of just 2/3 of one.

John

 

[Crofter]

John, I have only done a few on the bar because as you say you have to pinch the chain with the other hand to hold the tooth solid. Also the oil crud scrapes off the file onto the outside of the tooth and hides the corner. Ehp says he bends the handle or puts it into a handle at a 45 deg angle, but it would seem to then be wrong to do the other side of the chain so I just use a small handle strait on. I like to wash the chain and put it in the clamp but sure would like to see some others filing. Some files do not cut a crisp corner and actually leave a micro notch that shows up on either side or top plate. Have not been able to get the double enders. Occasionally I kiss the side plate but for the most part have developed a system that keeps me clear of that. The triangular file seems to be more prone to hit the tie strap. I do find that a 2X visor PLUS my reading glasses and good light is necessary to get accurate corner placement of the file, but then I am making 60 awfully nervous too. Dont know what you require in that respect.

Frank

 

[John Ellison]

I know what you mean Frank, 52 and I need reading glasses to file or grind well too.
Am I picturing it wrong or not as far as touching the tie strap and or drive link will make a sharper edge?

John

 

[Crofter]

John, bringing the tip of your file up away from the strap will give you a sharper diagonal on the top plate and a thinner or sharper top plate angle as well as more hook. For everyday cutting like you are doing that may give away some stay sharp. When I was trying to somewhat duplicate the factory square grind angles I was quite regularly hitting the straps. That is more like the angles in the Madsens square filing instructions and not much faster in the wood than a good round filing.

Frank

 

[ehp]

Frank what i meant was this take a wood handle like the one oregon makes, now flatten 2 sides across from each other along the handle, now put your file in the handle on a 45 degree to the flat sides so now when you hold the handle with the flat sides against your thumb and the next finger your file is already at 45 degrees so the 1 angle you need to watch is already taken care of , now you donot have to use 45 degrees you can use what ever angle you want but it makes life easier for me

 

[John Ellison]

Your right about the angles Frank, I,m going to experiment some with my grinder.
I think that I have been stuck in a rut.

John

 

[Crofter]

EHP; thanks Ed I'll see what that does.

John, I wonder if you might try radius the corner of the stone that is nicking the tie straps. It is not necessary to have a crisp corner at the bottom of the side plate panel. I blend that into the gullet anyway.

Frank

 

[John Ellison]

Yes, if I cut into them any more I would need to do something. Never had a chain break though. Was just using that for a reference on my angles. Think I will experiment with the top plate angle on my grinder. Like you said getting it up off the chassis would leave a thinner top plate angle. I feel like I can sacrifice a bit of stay sharp.

John

 

[John Ellison]

Frank, was reading the posts again and believe we might have been on different tracks. By corner to corner,I meant the outside top plate corner to the inside top plate corner.

John

 

[ehp]

John just grind the top angle on your wheel more so instead of having your corner on the wheel in the centre ,lower it down some till you stop cutting in to the tie straps all that happens is you will need to clean more glut out

 

[Crofter]

John, I got what you mean about corner to corner. The inside doesnt matter. When I am filing for a faster chain the corner line to the inside comes out well out onto the top plate.
I watched Ed dressing the angles on Gypo,s grinder. He does it so fast that it must be very easy! lol!

Frank

 

[ehp]

It is easy Frank, but once Gypo gets that pro sharp figured out ,he will be the man but donot worry for a while Frank , it is going to take him sometime to figure out what everything does because it is alot differrent than his razor sharp 2

 

[bwalker]

I recently obtained a square ground chain and file. The first thing I bnoticed is that it cuts farely smooth compared to round ground. I dont know if its a whole lot faster, but I just ran it out of the box with out touching it up. I did manege to bugger the thing all up trying to re sharpen it. I found its slightly easier if you put the chain in a vice, but still much more difficult than round ground.

 

[Crofter]

Ben, the out of the box square grind on new chain is not that hot, at least Oregon and Carlton. Don't know about Stihl. I think they expect you will refile / grind it anyway so it is not a real fair trial. Trying to sharpen on the bar is just that! very trying! Sure works better in a filing clamp, because it really wants to chatter unless the cutter is dead solid. Some apparently file inside to out which avoids the chatter but makes much harder to see your angles. If you want, throw that chain in the mail to me and I'll give it a square tickle. If it only costs the price of a chain to find out whether someones bullin' ya thats cheap!


Frank

 

[John Ellison]

Ed, I see what your saying about dressing the top of the stone down farther but looking at it again I'm cutting into the tie straps because of the side plate angle.Think I should change that?

John

 

[Crofter]

John isn't it the lower corner of your stone that is hitting the tie strap? By dressing the top of the stone down, you can lift the stone up. It will cut a smalller face on the side plate. Radiusing the lower corner of the stone will accomplish much the same but will leave a rounded section instead of sharp corner at the transition of side cutter into the gullet.

Frank

 

[preach it]

I bought a square file today and filed about an hour for my first attempt. The chain was half used, round filed, so it took a little work to get the square file to set right. I tried using the saw. Yes it is faster and smoother, I am sold on square filing.

 

[Marky Mark]

I admire anyone who can hand file square and there are only about 6 members here that can do it profitiently. Most of them picking it up when they started in the woods to make a living.
Although slightly faster than a good round ground chain, it takes much longer to square than round file freehand. Grinding square is the fastest and most accurate.
I think it was Lamebert who told me that, ya, that's right it was Lamebert.
Marky

 

[Crofter]

Preachit:
I think that is an excllent route to go. Without having to establish entirely new angles, you can just remove material from inside the top/side corner intersection of a round ground chain. That is the material that interferes with chip forming on a round ground. Your filing need not be perfect to make an improvement. With practice, the establishment of entirely new edge profiles will get easier.

Frank

 

[John Ellison]

Frank, if the inside corner line comes out well over on the top plate, that would mean a less sharp angle on the side plate. I think.

John