Square Grinders: Silvey Swing Arm, or RazurII Preferances / Opinions.

[SierraWoodsman]

Got my first chance to try full square grind chisel this year, and now I'm hooked.
Excellent performance gain over round chisel, I found it very smooth and fast.
I've read quite a few threads regarding the Square grind topic, and for me running Square makes good sense.
The cutting conditions I mostly work in are Clean with the wood usually soft pine. It seemed to hold up just as long as round, provided I keep it out of the dirt.
I've tryed square fileing, but like many of you I find it somewhat difficult to get the kind of precision I would like to achieve.
The Silvey Prosharp and SDM-4 are awsome grinders, but a little rich for my blood.
I decided to get my feet wet with either a silvey swing arm($749) or a Razur sharp II ($869).
I would like to get some opinions from those of you that have tried them both.
Thanks Guys....

 

[mdavlee]

I've owned both the swing arm and rz II. If you want to set and forget it the swing arm is easier. If you want more options to change angles then the RS II is better. The swing arm is easier to keep each side the same since it sets on the same chain holder. The razor sharp has 2 and each side has to be adjusted and matched up perfectly on the angles and everything or your grind will be off from side to side. I prefer the razor sharp for making gtg chains and such like that. The swing arm is quicker to do work chains. I would like to find another swing arm to go along with my RZ II just for work chains.

 

[watsonr]

I own one of each, like Mike said. The swing-arm is set it and forget it, as fast as a round grinder once you get the hang of it. The Razur II is more technical and does make good chains once you master the settings.

I would own a Pro-Sharp if it wasn't so expensive and may yet if I find the right deal!

Get the swing-arm and never think twice.

 

[young]

The Silvey Swing Arm grinder is a good entry level square-chisel grinder, but it is a "bare bones" machine. Built with economy as its top priority, it lacks many of the features found on more expensive machines. In spite of this, it is capable of producing well sharpened square-chisel cutter teeth, but you will have to work harder to produce them than the owner of an SDM-4 or Pro Sharp. If you are a cost-conscious user who is tired of hand-filing or paying a shop to sharpen your square-chisel chain, the the Silvey Swing Arm is an unbeatable value.

We rate the Razur Sharp II as an equal to the Swing Arm grinder. If you own a Swing Arm and are considering an upgrade, skip the Razur Sharp II and consider the SDM-4 or a Pro Sharp. The Razur Sharp II is so similar to the Swing Arm, we doubt you would find the difference between the two machines worth the cost of upgrading.

Both the Swing Arm and the Razur II are good "value" priced grinders, but if you have never used either machines and are weighing the differences between them, buy a Swing Arm. One reason not to follow this advice is if you have experience using a Razur II or if your mentor uses one. We have sold hundreds of Razur II grinders over the years and many pro saw users have experience using them. Familiarity has value, and in this case, it is probably worth spending the extra money on a Razur II.

http://www.madsens1.com/mnu_grindjack.htm

i have a swing arm myself.

 

[SierraWoodsman]

If you want more options to change angles then the RS II is better.

I'm leaning toward the RS2,It might be a little slower, But I would like the ability to experiment a little with angles for just a little more money.
Both sound like great entry level grinders capable of a very good end result.
Hopefully the learning curve isn't too steep with the RS2. I'm Going to order the blue and white wheels (Comes with gray) as there on sale.
Just too see which one I like the best.
I'll have too post a few pics and have you guy's critique my work after I get it.
Thanks for the reply's guys...It's appreciated
As always lot's of good advice from experienced users on A.S.

 

[Rounder]

Might want to try and find a used one, a lot of them out there just sitting around. A lot of cutters have gotten out the past few years. I paid $400 for a hardly used RS2.

 

[mdavlee]

I have gotten 2 of the RS IIs for an average of $250 each. I would check craigslist hard before I spent the money on a new one. Get the salmon instead of the white wheel. The blue is great but I wouldn't do much experimenting with a $30 wheel. If you get the RS II make sure you have a nice degree finder. It will make setup and changes much easier.

 

[watsonr]

I have gotten 2 of the RS IIs for an average of $250 each. I would check craigslist hard before I spent the money on a new one. Get the salmon instead of the white wheel. The blue is great but I wouldn't do much experimenting with a $30 wheel. If you get the RS II make sure you have a nice degree finder. It will make setup and changes much easier.

Curious to know which degree finder your using for the measuring?

 

[Warped5]

Where's the debate?

I just put my chains under a tin foil pyramid overnight and they come out clean and razor sharp! :jester:

 

[SierraWoodsman]

Curious to know which degree finder your using for the measuring?

Yes I would like to know as well, Any particular Brand?
Also, if you could explain your perference for the salmon over the white?
I was told the white because it is easier to get the corner alignment perfect.
Does this sound right to you?

 

[SierraWoodsman]

Diamond Dressers on Silvey entry level grinders.

On Madsens Site they state the following: "The Razur Sharp II uses the same wheel dressing mechanisms as the Swing Arm grinder. These "economized" dressing mechanisms do not shape the wheel as accurately as those used on the SDM-4 and Pro Sharp. While these are not as stable as those used on the more expensive machines, an operator can produce a workable wheel by making light passes and dressing in the right direction. This reduces deflection and improves the shape and finish on the grinding wheel."

They make it sound like it is a real PITA to get the wheel properly/accuratly shaped. Do you guys feel that it's that difficult to dress the wheel properly?

Will the swing arm or Razur II accept the upgraded multi point diamond dressers found on the SDM-4 and Pro-Sharp if purchased seperatly?

Hope I'm not being a PITA myself.

 

[FrankHgh]

my gringers

i have two grinders, SDM-4 that i dont use much and a simington swingarm. the simington by far is a better grinder. alot of literiture on these grinders out there.

 

[mdavlee]

The degree finder is just one you get from lowes or home depot. Just not the bargain bin $1 one. It may be a craftsman I just can't remember right now.

Dressing the wheel isn't a problem on the swing arm or RS. You just have to do it more often than a SDM 4 or pro sharp since the top plate feeds across the working corner. The sdm and pro sharp feed in at an angle and don't wear the corner as quick. I do a light dress from side to side when I grind. The only time I had to dress on the same side was 42" full comp chains.

The blue will hold it's shape better than the others but is twice as expensive for probably a 1/3 or so longer lasting. The white is easier to burn a tooth than the salmon. I think the salmon is hard to beat for the price/finish/lasting. White makes a smooth cutter and is a little easier to see but not much.

I really like the diamond tip dressers. It's a worth while upgrade from the single point.

Give the guys and madsens a call and they can help you out and answer lots of questions. I know when I bought my first one I called and talked to a guy in the back that sharpens chains for them.

 

[devonhubb]

i have two grinders, SDM-4 that i dont use much and a simington swingarm. the simington by far is a better grinder. alot of literiture on these grinders out there.

I agree. Besides the Silvey swingarm is a copy of the Simington swingarm. Simington is the best and is usually a bit cheaper than Silvey if purchased new.

 

[mdavlee]

Last time I checked a new simington was $800. It's about $80 more than a swing arm. It puts it almost at the price of a RS II.

 

[Rounder]

Just my 2 cents on wheels.. I can't see small things very well, so I use the white wheels. I just put on a dirty pair of work gloves, get the general area around the corner good and dirty, then dress the wheel. Leaves a nice defined line where the corner is.

If you can see, the salmon wheels do a nice job though.

 

[John Ellison]

I have owned a RSII for years and have had good luck with it. I also like the salmon wheels. You can put multi point or single point dressers in them. It works out good to have a set of both. By several wheels at once, screw in the single points and get all of the wheels dressed and then switch to the multi points. The multi p. seem to make a better finish but the single points last longer, so do the ruff original profile with them.

 

[devonhubb]

Last time I checked a new simington was $800. It's about $80 more than a swing arm. It puts it almost at the price of a RS II.

The last time I checked a new Simington was just a smidgeon over $700. But now that I think about it, it was several years ago that I last checked.

 

[056kid]

New? I was under the assumption that Simington has been out of production for a while now..

 

[mdavlee]

Simington was making grinders a few months ago. They were still building the 451 swing arm. I think they had closed and then re opened a year or so later.