Square Grinders: Silvey Swing Arm, or RazurII Preferances / Opinions.

[w8ye]

On Madsens Site they state the following: "The Razur Sharp II uses the same wheel dressing mechanisms as the Swing Arm grinder. These "economized" dressing mechanisms do not shape the wheel as accurately as those used on the SDM-4 and Pro Sharp. While these are not as stable as those used on the more expensive machines, an operator can produce a workable wheel by making light passes and dressing in the right direction. This reduces deflection and improves the shape and finish on the grinding wheel."

They make it sound like it is a real PITA to get the wheel properly/accuratly shaped. Do you guys feel that it's that difficult to dress the wheel properly?

Will the swing arm or Razur II accept the upgraded multi point diamond dressers found on the SDM-4 and Pro-Sharp if purchased seperatly?

Hope I'm not being a PITA myself.

I have a early Silvey Swing Arm "R" made in 1979. There are color remnants that it was originally red with a golden anodized arm. It is almost identical in every way to the early Simington model 450.

To explain what Madsen's is talking about with the correct dressing direction - You need the direction of the wheel turning so that when dressing the wheel, the grinding wheel is pulling on the dresser bracket and not pushing on it. This will prevent chatter and means the wheel should be turning from the right to the left. Be sure to make very light dressing passes to prolong the life of your dressers. Using delicate care, there's no reason you cannot dress well with a single point dresser.

The multiple point dressers have to be used very delicately as the diamonds are smaller than on the single point dresser. I would certainly pre-shape the grinding wheel with a single point dresser first before using the multi-point dresser.

When engaging the chain cutter with the grinding wheel, I hold down lightly on both sides of the chain as this keeps the cutter accurately against the stop and the front of the cutter from rising from the holder. You don't want to hold down very hard are you will begin to deflect the arm and change the position of the dressed corner of the grinding wheel relative to the corner of the cutter. I hold the chain lightly with one hand and feed the cutter into the grinding wheel with the other hand. Sharpening a chain goes rather fast once you get the corners aligned. If they are not aligned, you will get a beak either on the top or side. Other than that it is simple.

I bought my Swing Arm grinder used. The gentleman I purchased it from had owned it a few years but had never used it. He had purchased it from a horse trader in California who never used it either and I doubt either person knew much about the grinder other than what it was? It also appears that it had sat unused at its original location for some years before the trading routine? One of the more critical settings of the swing arm grinder is the accuracy, squareness, or trueness of the arm with the main body. On the Silvey's this is adjustable. People preparing one of these for shipping seem compelled to remove the arm for shipping so the box will be smaller. Removing the arm creates a lot of work for the buyer to get the grinder to where it repeats left to right on the chain tooth again without readjustment and possibly the resulting ever so slightly different angles on right and left cutters?

The angles that the dressers were set at when received (And they appeared to not ever have been moved) produced a chain with angles intermediate between a factory Oregon LC chain and what a ATOP race jig produces.

 

[Tree Sling'r]

I agree. Besides the Silvey swingarm is a copy of the Simington swingarm. Simington is the best and is usually a bit cheaper than Silvey if purchased new.

Actually the Silvey swing arm is the original, I do agree though that the Simington version is far better.

 

[w8ye]

Actually the Silvey swing arm is the original, I do agree though that the Simington version is far better.

Not doubting anyone's word and you West Coast guy's should know which came first on the market? . . .

Elmer Silvey and Jack Simington filed for several patents in the 60's & 70's and most patents reference each other. These two guys undoubtedly knew each other?

The Silvey model "R" which was last made in 1982 is almost exactly like the old Simington 450. They use the same motor/switch, stand attachment, and it looks like the rest of the parts will all interchange? The patent for this grinder is 4,044,635 and was held by Jack Simington. Look it up on Google as "patent 4044635". It works smoother to use the Google response than the one from the patent office. The Silvey patents tend to be more like the Silvey Pro Sharp and SDM4 layouts.

As time went on, the later Silvey "SN" and Simington "451" series swing arms evolved into their own with a different motor, stand attachment, and the arm design changed significantly.

The current Simington swing arm appears to offer more utility.

 

[w8ye]

I went on a wild goose chase today, It didn't start out that way but that is how it ended up.

I called Silvey and talked to the gentleman some. I mentioned the similarity of the original Silvey Swing Arm with the Simington 450.

He says that Elmer Silvey sold the design, patent and all, to Jack Simington and this was in the late 70's. That Silvey no longer made the swing arm after 1982 until long after the patents expired. He said that after that over the years the Simington product line went through several hands and shut downs and start ups.

I was looking for some parts and the Silvey guy sent me to Smith's Logging Supply. Mr. Smith was on the road but the lady that answered the phone says they get Simington from Salt Creek Industries. That Salt Creek's main business is cattle chutes but that is where Smith's get their Simington items as Simington is a side line for Salt Creek. I didn't call Salt Creek as I decided to make the parts myself.

Salt Creek Industries (for Simington?)
19203 Westside Rd
Lakeview, OR 97630
541.947.4444
Squeeze Chute and Cattle Handling Equipment from Salt Creek Chutes

One thing that the Silvey guy did say was that with the current Silvey Swing Arm design, the center to center distance from the pivot bolt to the motor shaft is different, therefore, The new style swing arm will not work on the early red/gold grinder made in the 70's as the chain cutter will not intersect with the grinding wheel at the correct angle.