SRT advice

[pdqdl]

I am thinking about pursuing SRT, and I already have most all the toys necessary. The ability to weave a path around in the upper part of a tree and then being able to descend is very appealing...but I have no descender.

Is a mechanical descender necessary, or is a friction hitch sufficient? I have LOTS of beeline.

(I have a rescue-8, but that seems like a bad idea for general use, except for a long rappel out of the tree.)

If a friction hitch is suitable, which do you prefer? I am currently using a VT with 4 top wraps.

 

[deevo]

I am thinking about pursuing SRT, and I already have most all the toys necessary. The ability to weave a path around in the upper part of a tree and then being able to descend is very appealing...but I have no descender.

Is a mechanical descender necessary, or is a friction hitch sufficient? I have LOTS of beeline.

(I have a rescue-8, but that seems like a bad idea for general use, except for a long rappel out of the tree.)

If a friction hitch is suitable, which do you prefer? I am currently using a VT with 4 top wraps.

Go with a grigri or Id
http://www.petzl.com/us/pro/descenders-0
Work great, easy to use and safe!

 

[tree md]

Although I am by no means an expert at SRT, a figure 8 is considered acceptable for descending. I have never worked on an SRT system, always switched to a doubled line but you could back the fig 8 up with a prussic cord or do a hard lock if you wanted to work off the system.

Get the book "On Rope" if you plan on getting serious about SRT. Indispensable. Best 10 bucks I have spent!

 

[pdqdl]

Ordered one just now. Less than $15 used, with shipping, from Amazon. There is a new edition out, but I think I can live with the old one for quite a bit less money.

Now, back to the question: do any of you SRT guys descend on just a friction hitch, or is a de$cender mandatory to be effective?

I used to have a micro-scender on my lanyard, and I abandoned it for a section of beeline and a $15 pulley, so I am not stuck on fancy equipment.

 

[Norwayclimber]

I think you might have missunderstood. The srt system is a great system for getting upp in the tree (can also be used down), but moving around in the tree on srt is a hassle. The most common use for srt is as an acsess system. You get a your throwline and rope high upp in the tree, and you have an efficient system of getting fast and easy upp. Once upp you install your cambriumsaversytem and work of a normal drt system.

As for rappelling on a srt system you'll need a breaking device. Figure of 8 works fine but so does an munther hitch. Back upp with prusik or have a groundie belay you from below. (By tightening the rope, he'll stopp uncontrolled movment downwards)

 

[TheLumberJack]

I think you might have missunderstood. The srt system is a great system for getting upp in the tree (can also be used down), but moving around in the tree on srt is a hassle. The most common use for srt is as an acsess system. You get a your throwline and rope high upp in the tree, and you have an efficient system of getting fast and easy upp. Once upp you install your cambriumsaversytem and work of a normal drt system.

As for rappelling on a srt system you'll need a breaking device. Figure of 8 works fine but so does an munther hitch. Back upp with prusik or have a groundie belay you from below. (By tightening the rope, he'll stopp uncontrolled movment downwards)

game, set, match.

great advice...also +1 'On Rope'.

 

[RacerX]

What do most guys for an anchoring point when setting up a SRT system? Do you shoot into a high crotch with a big shot and then tie off to the base of the tree? I'm, always concerned about the doubling effect that setup has on the crotch of the branch that you're using. Does anyone worry about the crotch not being strong enough in that situation?

 

[Norwayclimber]

What do most guys for an anchoring point when setting up a SRT system? Do you shoot into a high crotch with a big shot and then tie off to the base of the tree? I'm, always concerned about the doubling effect that setup has on the crotch of the branch that you're using. Does anyone worry about the crotch not being strong enough in that situation?

Thats pretty much the idea. There's not quite a doubling effect, as there is quite a bit of friction, but it is wise to go upp a size on crothes. The good thing is you often have more crothes further down that will work as a backup, if you've eaten to much latley.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Although I am by no means an expert at SRT, a figure 8 is considered acceptable for descending. I have never worked on an SRT system, always switched to a doubled line but you could back the fig 8 up with a prussic cord or do a hard lock if you wanted to work off the system.

Get the book "On Rope" if you plan on getting serious about SRT. Indispensable. Best 10 bucks I have spent!

:agree2:

However, be aware that both the f8 descender and the Munter can twist the rope. On a long descent it can put a lot of twist in the rope. But, you can rig an f8 like an ATC so it doen't twist the rope (got pic if interested).

On Rope is a little out of date but still a great buy - highly recommended.

 

[jrietkerk]

If a friction hitch is suitable, which do you prefer? I am currently using a VT with 4 top wraps.

a friction hitch won't work on a single line, at least not with the same configuration you would use Ddrt. The hitch shares the load with the other half of the rope when you're on Ddrt - its got all of you on SRT, and will bite down hard. I had to try it to understand it.

You can work on SRT easy with a mechanical descender - have a hand ascender and pulley with you so you can ascend a bit and work position on a RADS during the climb. Go up with your ascent system (more economical), and then switch to your descender and RADS when you're ready to work. Switch back again if you need to go up higher again. There's lots you can do, just tie in twice, and don't cut your rope. . .

Re-positioning and rope advance with SRT is a bit cumbersome. If the tree is that big, bring a big double lanyard with you and move around and bring the rope with you until you can place it just right. Its probably worth another rope and setting up a Ddrt system if it comes to that point.

 

[pdqdl]

I think you might have missunderstood. The srt system is a great system for getting upp in the tree (can also be used down), but moving around in the tree on srt is a hassle. The most common use for srt is as an acsess system. You get a your throwline and rope high upp in the tree, and you have an efficient system of getting fast and easy upp. Once upp you install your cambriumsaversytem and work of a normal drt system.

As for rappelling on a srt system you'll need a breaking device. Figure of 8 works fine but so does an munther hitch. Back upp with prusik or have a groundie belay you from below. (By tightening the rope, he'll stopp uncontrolled movment downwards)

No misunderstanding on my part, I know that. I have seen videos of guys that do the whole job on a single line, throwing the line where they need to go, then either descending on it, or climbing the recovered end. It looked real cool, so I thought I might try it. I can see where there would be clear advantages for some applications, not good at all in others.

Obviously, replacing the Drt for full time use of Srt would dictate that I get better at going up the rope, and have a practical method of descending. Obviously, I want to play a little with it before I spend a lot on equipment. I have no use for any descender if I am sticking to Drt, and I refuse to consider a Munter hitch or figure 8. You must be hanging on to that rig, or down you will come.

Furthermore, I need to learn more of the techniques before I try to squeeze my employees into using it too.



Right now, I just pull my Drt rig up into the tree with a single line. Fast and easy, and I don't need to use the Srt toys. No need to isolate a branch, either.

 

[D Mc]

Right now, I just pull my Drt rig up into the tree with a single line. Fast and easy, and I don't need to use the Srt toys. No need to isolate a branch, either.

And that's a very good system that also allows a ground-based rescue response.

Have you seen this video? Kevin has come up with a way of sharing the workload of the hitch so that it can be used on a single line for both ascent and descent. It can be somewhat difficult to grasp the concept but it is kind of a cool idea for working a tree single rope without a lot of cost.

I have never used this method myself. I personally don't mind the cost factor for getting the right tool for the job. Entire trees can be worked single rope quite easily and with certain advantages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyXwrXgN0qw

Dave

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

...

Right now, I just pull my Drt rig up into the tree with a single line. Fast and easy, and I don't need to use the Srt toys. No need to isolate a branch, either.

Do you use a pulley on end of that single line, or a Friction Saver, or ... ?

I'll do that with a pulley when I can't isolate a branch. But, I guess it could be done with an FS, too, if you didn't have a pulley available?

 

[pdqdl]

And that's a very good system that also allows a ground-based rescue response.

...
Dave

Yep. I got the idea from you! Thanks.

Since then, I have suggested this method to others here at AS, and I always gave you the credit.

 

[pdqdl]

Do you use a pulley on end of that single line, or a Friction Saver, or ... ?

I'll do that with a pulley when I can't isolate a branch. But, I guess it could be done with an FS, too, if you didn't have a pulley available?

I usually use my friction saver or a screw link. I don't have a suitable pulley, and I actually prefer a little more friction than pulley provides.

I have concluded that isolating a branch is a useless waste of time. No gain that I can think of except that you are using less rope, and it sure takes more time. For those that don't trust their groundmen near their climbing rope, it might become an issue.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

I usually use my friction saver or a screw link. I don't have a suitable pulley, and I actually prefer a little more friction than pulley provides.
I have concluded that isolating a branch is a useless waste of time. No gain that I can think of except that you are using less rope, and it sure takes more time. For those that don't trust their groundmen near their climbing rope, it might become an issue.

Excellant tip, FS on another line. I've been very lucky isolating limbs but if the crown is too crowed and it looks like it will take more time to isolate than to pull out and set another rope then I'll use your advice - it's a great tip - thanks.

 

[pdqdl]

I like this method for a different reason: You never really know how strong your TIP is until you get up to inspect.

The single line supporting a Drt is generally over a whole bunch of branches, so at least in theory, you have backup branches to catch you. Isolate a single branch and you are committed to staying up or coming down on that branch alone.

 

[RacerX]

Thats pretty much the idea. There's not quite a doubling effect, as there is quite a bit of friction, but it is wise to go upp a size on crothes. The good thing is you often have more crothes further down that will work as a backup, if you've eaten to much latley.

The doubling effect I was referencing is when using an SRT setup with the rope tied to the base of the tree. That setup will apply twice the load to the crotch. So a 200+ pound guy with 25 pounds of gear will exert a force of 450+ pounds on the crotch. Sounds a little scary when you're only viewing the crotch from the ground.

 

[tree md]

I usually use my friction saver or a screw link. I don't have a suitable pulley, and I actually prefer a little more friction than pulley provides.

I have concluded that isolating a branch is a useless waste of time. No gain that I can think of except that you are using less rope, and it sure takes more time. For those that don't trust their groundmen near their climbing rope, it might become an issue.

Not to mention the time it saves not having to isolate a limb. Here in OK, where most of the tops have been blown out by our large ice storm, crowns are very crowded.

I haven't used the setup you mention but I think it's a great idea and one I plan to add to my arsenal soon.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

The doubling effect I was referencing is when using an SRT setup with the rope tied to the base of the tree. That setup will apply twice the load to the crotch. So a 200+ pound guy with 25 pounds of gear will exert a force of 450+ pounds on the crotch. Sounds a little scary when you're only viewing the crotch from the ground.

Not to mention the time it saves not having to isolate a limb. Here in OK, where most of the tops have been blown out by our large ice storm, crowns are very crowded.

I haven't used the setup you mention but I think it's a great idea and one I plan to add to my arsenal soon.

:agree2:

I'm rethinking my approach, too. Not only is it a waste of time (sometimes a lot of time) to isolate a limb, there's the time messin' around with all those moves for setting the FS - threading the throwline, pulling the FS aound the limb, dropping the bag, threading the climb line, yada yada). Then there's the retrieval ...

As long as there's a strong limb that can take twice the load, as RacerX wisely points out, an FS on another line makes A LOT of sense. I'll use it on a big job tomorrow.