SRT Resources

[Redbull]

Are there any sites or good books offering advice on all aspects of SRT? Including, but not limited to, ascending, descending, devices, hitches, etc.
Thanks,
Brandon
PS, I have read tree climbers companion, but the info is kinda limited in this area.

 

[Tree Machine]

Ask specific questions to someone who LOVES climbing SRT. All there is ascending and descending and moving around. I don't read widely on the subject, except for Tom Dunlap's stuff, I just do it.

I don't know of any resources, other than past threads, and there have been some really good ones. There was one about exactly two years ago it was really strong. Do a search on THIS site, up top-right of the page here, just type in SRT and you will come up with the answers to a lot of your questions.


Specifically, what would you like to know?

 

[Redbull]

I use a Pantin right now, climbing DdRT. It helps during ascents, but I'm still wasting a lot of energy using DdRT. I Tried SRT on a low limb at my house. I ran my line over the limb and locked it off to my Port-A-Wrap at the based of the tree. Here's where I had my problem. I don't have a handled ascender so I tied a Blake with my split tail, and used my Pantin to go up. This was much faster, but, I could not decend on my Blake. It was locked up from supporting my weight. Fotunately, I could walk my wife through releasing the locked rope on the Port-A-Wrap and let me down. So....would the best method for descent be a figure-8 backed up with a Blake? Also, I plan to purchase a handled ascender, should I back this up with a Blake while ascending? Thanks for any help.
Brandon

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm glad you can appreciate the wasted energy and effort in the DdRT.

Do you want to modify a system that causing you to feel limited and inefficient, or are you willing to just for a few moments shed everything you know about climbing trees, and just focus on the picture below,

and I would ask you,

(in a Chinese accent, of course.)

"Grasshoppa, look deeply into the ascenders. Tell me what you see."

 

[Tree Machine]

Ooops, this is an SRT thread.

Look deeply into the ascender. Tell me what you think.

SLAP!

Don't think, feel.

 

[bottlefed89]

I've been trying a decent bit of SRT lately, as I've been kinda slow. I just slip an eight on the line while hangin on the weight of my blakes, then stand on the pantin, and shift my "upper weight" onto the figure eight and come down with the eight backed up by the blakes. Make sense?? Not hard.
Here's a question though, maybe dumb, but oh well.. After all my stuff got stolen I got new ropes, saddle, etc... Well, with my older ropes I had no problem just doubling a figured eight knot, then leaving several feet for my friction hitch. I can't get anything to hold doing that on my new poison ivy, is the rope not broke in enough, or do I need a smaller diameter rope to use for my friction hitch??

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm not the person to ask friction hitch questions.

Figure 8 backed up by a Blake's. Perfectly acceptable.

I can't get anything to hold doing that on my new poison ivy, is the rope not broke in enough, or do I need a smaller diameter rope to use for my friction hitch??

The tress cord or split tail needs to be at least 2mm in diameter smaller than what it's wrapping around.

 

[Redbull]

Greg, we should get together sometime. No work, just play. I've got a nice Burr Oak next to my house that's perfect for trying new methods like SRT. I am really interested in using SRT to enter trees, I just don't want to be too gear intensive.( I love new toys, but the budget won't allow it right now.) I'm thinking I could use my Pantin, a right handed ascender, and a figure-8 and I'd be set for what I would be climbing. I rarely see trees over 90'.
Tree Machine, I see in that picture a time machine. You see, I could save several hours a week and add lots of years to my life with the energy I would conserve from not having to climb twice the rope as in my current setup.

 

[Redbull]

Greg, I cut a section of my Blaze to use as my split-tail. It worked for me. Although, I did notice that if my Blake was not tied, dressed, and set just right, it would slip. The Blaze is much less forgiving than my 1/2" Safety Blue HiVee was as far as my hitch goes.

 

[bottlefed89]

Yeah, we should get together sometime, gimme a couple weeks and we'll do it. Where in KC you at?? I just bought 20 acres in Kingsville, so I'm a little ways out, but I'm use to driving...

 

[Redbull]

Kansas City, north. I'm almost right at the intersection of I-35 and Antioch Rd.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

How hard is Body-thrusting on SRT, if there even is such a thing.

The other thing I wonder about is the protection of the rope going up the spar. If 2 climbers are working a tree together and a limb would hit the rope hard.........could this be dangerous?

 

[Tree Machine]

How hard is Body-thrusting on SRT, ir there even is such a thing.

There is. It's hard.

The other thing I wonder about is the protection of the rope going up the spar. If 2 climbers are working a tree together and a limb would hit the rope hard.........could this be dangerous?

Hail yes it could!

 

[Tree Machine]

Tree Machine, I see in that picture a time machine. You see, I could save several hours a week and add lots of years to my life with the energy I would conserve from not having to climb twice the rope as in my current setup.

Dang strait. On top of that is the pure joy and freedom to move about the canopies with swiftness and confidence. You should never, ever have to fight with your gear.


Why does everybody think SRT is 'gear intensive'? Why do you refer to 'new methods like SRT'? SRT is what is and has always been used since the beginning of time. We arborists are weird ducks because we have this doubled rope technique that is uniquely us and our entire tree climbing industry is born, bred and made of the friction hitch system.

I can appreciate the concept, and the singuarity of traditional DdRT, but only for coming down. For going up, the DdRT friction hitch system is energy-wasting, slow, painfully exasperating 2:1 setup.

DbRT and SRT are 1:1 which makes it faster right out of the blocks. What makes entry into this school possible? A set of ascenders. Now ascend.

OK you're at the top of the tree. You do one of two things. Pull one end of the rope up, apply the friction hitch and descend and work DdRT. OR, you apply a device, remove the ascenders and descend and work DbRT. The choice is up to you. Do you co-mingle the new school with the old school, or do you choose one of the dozens of devices made for 11 mm and try something refreshingly and distinctly different. Life is too short to climb a single style forever. 11 mm gives you options.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

OK, so how do you protect that rope running up the trunk? I know any coworker will look out for this.........but things can happen..........unfortunately the wrong things.

 

[NickfromWI]

I'm not sure you're wasting energy with DRT. Maybe time, but not energy. Output should be the same SRT vs DRT. DRT you have to move 2x as much rope, but only half the energy to do it.

love
nick

 

[Redbull]

I don't know Nick. I feel like I'm not wasting energy on SRT because all effort is used going up the rope, and not wasted on friction and having to move the rope.

 

[Tree Machine]

It's more than that, Nick

I'm not sure you're wasting energy with DRT. Maybe time, but not energy. Output should be the same SRT vs DRT. DRT you have to move 2x as much rope, but only half the energy to do it.
love
nick

First, you can't just say DRT because there's traditional friction hitch DdRT (2:1) and dual-ascender DbRT (1:1)

Technically, as RedBull points out, there is more than half the energy is used to get only half the vertical gain. You have friction losses; friction at the friction hitch, and friction at the crotch or limb. These are real losses. Then there's the 'mental' loss of having two meters of rope pass through your feet, but you only gaining one meter of height.

If you were to put a traditional DdRT climber next to a DbRT or SRT climber and have them ascend at the same rate, the DdRT guy would have to be putting double the motion and rate of motion, to keep up with the 1:1 climber who does not experience the friction losses. In a 10 meter ascent where they both start at the same time and end at the same time, given identical and proper footlock technique, the traditional DbRT climber will be much more winded than the 1:1 guy. In a race, the 1:1 climber will smoke the 2:1 guy every time.

I'm not bashing our traditional methods. I'm just pointing out the clear differences so our noobs and early climbers at least understand how the three systems are alike and different.

 

[DadF]

Let me know when you're back up again

TM - I really gotta get down there and take a look at some of your "doings". I've messed around with fire service rope rescue, caving and rock climbing to know that there are "better/easier" ways of doing things. Just now getting into the recreational side of rope fun and can see a lot of cross applications but don't know where to start.
In the meantime keep that therapist busy...

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Read the book ON ROPE by Smith and Padgett for a good basis on SRT. Cavers figured things out pretty well by the mid 60s all we're doing is refining things and using better ropes and hardware.

On Rope1, with the numeral 1, is a good source of SRT gear and information.