Starting a diesel in freezing weather ?

[mini kahuna]

I think an electrical block heater with a small generator would be the easiest setup,it only takes an hour or so to take the chill off the block.
I work on diesels,ether keeps me employed down here.
their used to be a block heater that used propane to heat up the coolant,no electricity needed but I haven't seen one for a while.
the sweet setup is the heater that runs off your machines diesel,it taps right into the fuel system.

 

[5555555]

In a pinch, I used to use HEET in an aluminum pie plate under the oil pan to start a skidder on a real cold day. The HEET burns long enough to heat the engine and battery and helped cold starting a lot. It's also very cheap and portable...

Now the warnings - HEET, primarily alchohol, burns without visible flame in the daylight. It may not look lit but can burn badly. Secondly, you need to keep your equipment clean to use this method, our starting the skidder won't be your big problem.

Jim

 

[Sprig]

Ditto on the ether usage, don't use it if you don't really have to. I spent 7yrs driving sidewinders and dozer boats (little 4-54 Jimmys I think) and once people started putting the ether to them (because we were a high production mill and people tended to get into a hurry), as one of the mechanics at the mill said 'They get addicted to it.', an expensive rebuild wasn't far off usually. Pretty good way to shave your eyebrows too if you are not careful. I really like the sound of the heaters that tap into the vehicles fuel system, makes sense esp. if you're in remote regions. In really cold spots people will simply leave their engines running 24/7, most applicable to trucks and heatplants on northern oil rigs. Good thread gents!

 

[ShoerFast]

Good thread gents!

It is a good thread!

Cold starts are always a trick and a half.

Either is just way to dry to get in the habit of using, holding an unburning propane torch in the in the in-take is a little nicer to the engine as it doesnt wash the oil off of the cylinder walls. New glow-plugs and a good fresh battery with well serviced connections may be the cheapest insurance. But a tired engine with border-line compression and marginal injectors is going to be hard to start.

Along with engine oils getting thicker and harder to crank, cold air is just hard to get the engine to fire. Cold also makes the electron exchange in the battery slower, lowering the available amperage. About the best way to get a little more snort out of a cold battery is to hook up a trickle charger that is made to keep batteries up, if it has an "automatic" feature, it wouldn't hurt the battery if it were plugged in all the time the engine is shut-down. The activity of a trickle charger takes the chill out of a battery giving it way more "umpth" for cranking.

There is a trick that sometimes works to get a little more out of a cold start, just turning the lights on for about 20 seconds, and back off, the draw of the lights will sometime give just enought warmth to a cold battery, this trick will prove it's self if your ever trying to start a gas engine that dose not have enought juice to spark the plugs, the extra warmth will sometime be just the trick to get that extra volt.

A some day toy for me would be an old John Deere 70 D , they have a V-4 pony engine for a starter, that tapes into the coolant warming the main engine, and the pony exhaust is the big engines intake. If it's too cold to start "starter-engine" it's too cold to work!

 

[bwalker]

I have a 01 cummins in my dodge and all I do is hop in, let the light go off and start. I dont even plug it in. I also dont live in a very warm climate and have used the same procedure down to well below zero.

 

[Marco]

Wouldn't it depend on what model of diesel engine that one is trying to start? Some take better to ether than others. I have found that an injector that has a button works nicely, you just tap it while you are cranking. I run a D361 and a D358 IH engine like this for several years now and have not seen them get any worse for wear. The original poster really didn't say what he was trying to start, could be a Cat with a pony motor.
I have heard of the pickup to diesel coolant transfusion before and it seems reasonable, never tried it.
Some older model diesels are just cold blooded and you could rebuild everything and it wouldn't start in the cold.

 

[B-Edwards]

I'm not sure if anyone noticed or addressed the spraying of either in the Muffler comment, I don't mean to be a jerk but it doesn't go in the muffler its the air intake where you want to spray it. Also want to mention that the discussion between Tom Dunlap and Franz was exactly how (imo) things should be discussed here, very professional.

 

[chowdozer]

Had this problem last Feb in Wyoming at -31 deg F with two Onan diesel gens, a Cat 3406 and three Honda gas generators to start. Batteries are the major obstacle at these temps. Even the Hondas didn't want to start. I used the ether to start one of the Honda's, plugged in a milk house heater to the Honda and put the heater in the Onan battery compartment for an hour or so with jumper cables to the Onan from the suv. On your diesel, hold that throttle wide open and let it get all the air it can so you have something to build compression. Once I got one Onan started, the second was easy as they shared starting batteries and fuel supply. Ditto for the Cat. It took close to two hours to get everything running.

Many fires are started in sub zero temperatures trying to get things started. Be careful.

 

[ShoerFast]

On your diesel, hold that throttle wide open and let it get all the air it can so you have something to build compression.
.

No offence, as I don't know what your experience level is with diesel systems, but old manual rack triggered or pump plate, injectors fall on a spool valve in-tell the engine reaches the speed the governor is asking it to run at, unless it has 100% feed-back electrical timed injectors, WOT just may be too much fuel. it's hard, but at cranking speed, even diesel's can be too rich.

Maybe I missed something somewhere, but I know of no diesel that will build any more compression at WOT cranking, there is no butterfly valve or throttle plate.

Here is a trivia question, anyone think a Bank's style engine brake (ball-valve restriction in the exhaust) if engaged, create signifigantly more cranking compression for a cold start?

 

[PES+]

Hmmmm

I would say no but I may be missing something. I installed one for a customer and never even considered that use. They sure are quieter and seem easier on the engine that the J brakes. The farmers up here ride the J full or empty on their feed trucks on the flat GRRRRRRRRRR

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I don't know if it really works, but I heard that if you stick a hair dryer or heat gun towards the intake, it preheats the air and it'll start right up.

If it's true, and it makes sense based on what Shoerfast's comment:
"Along with engine oils getting thicker and harder to crank, cold air is just hard to get the engine to fire."
Then maybe some other heat source like a propane torch could work. Not to preheat the motor, just the air getting sucked in.

 

[mini kahuna]

you know what,I bet that hair dryer trick would work,cool idea.
I don't see how you would stress or damage the engine either.
that is how cummins does it in the dodge pickup,heating element in the intake,warms the air charge going in engine,and those dodges' start great in cold weather.

 

[Curbside]

you know what,I bet that hair dryer trick would work,cool idea.
I don't see how you would stress or damage the engine either.
that is how cummins does it in the dodge pickup,heating element in the intake,warms the air charge going in engine,and those dodges' start great in cold weather.

My Dodge's have glow plugs. My Freightliners with Cummins engines have heating elements in the intake. I don't know if it would get hot enough with a hair dryer. It wouldn't hurt anything. But if you live in a area cold enough to worry about it just put a inline heater in their only about a 100.00.

 

[04ultra]

Make sure if you use ether that you disconect glow plugs . ether on a hot glow plug will burn the tip rite off.. Watched a demo at a trade show for Baru glow plugs and they showed what it does..I pulled the heads off a 7.3 that had a knock after guy used ether and found 2 glow plug tips on piston domes that were hitting cylinder head ,6 plugs were burnt off .

 

[chowdozer]

I don't know if it really works, but I heard that if you stick a hair dryer or heat gun towards the intake, it preheats the air and it'll start right up.

If it's true, and it makes sense based on what Shoerfast's comment:
"Along with engine oils getting thicker and harder to crank, cold air is just hard to get the engine to fire."
Then maybe some other heat source like a propane torch could work. Not to preheat the motor, just the air getting sucked in.

I tried the hairdryer for about 15 minutes and gave up. Maybe a heatgun would work better, hotter air. Best bet is to keep the batteries warm and hold the throttle wide open to let it get all the air it can.

 

[chowdozer]

No offence, as I don't know what your experience level is with diesel systems, but old manual rack triggered or pump plate, injectors fall on a spool valve in-tell the engine reaches the speed the governor is asking it to run at, unless it has 100% feed-back electrical timed injectors, WOT just may be too much fuel. it's hard, but at cranking speed, even diesel's can be too rich.

Maybe I missed something somewhere, but I know of no diesel that will build any more compression at WOT cranking, there is no butterfly valve or throttle plate.

Here is a trivia question, anyone think a Bank's style engine brake (ball-valve restriction in the exhaust) if engaged, create signifigantly more cranking compression for a cold start?

I have found that with the two Onan 12.5 KW's I have at work which travel the country, bypassing the governor by holding the throttle open results in almost immediate starting with warm batteries. It's probably over a minute of cranking to start the normal way and less than 20 seconds if I hold the throttle open. Maybe you can't do this with all diesels, I don't know.

 

[Rancher]

I warm up my tractors by placing a 6 foot section of chimney pipe with an elbow on the end pointing up under the oil pan. Then I place a propane tiger torch into the far end. That lets very hot air onto the tractor but the pipe is long enough that no flames are coming out. Pretty safe.

The biggest problem I have is gelled fuel. Even with products like Red Tec I still get gelling unless I have drained all the summer diesel and put in artic diesel. The problem there is the service stations not switching over their tanks until too late in the winter. I currently have two of three tractors with gelled fuel because of that. I had treated the fuel but at 22 below and a strong wind two of them gelled. Of course, those are the two with snow plows that I need today.

QUESTION- What was that about mixing different anti freezes? I may have just done that on my pick up, the new stuff was yellow and the old was green.

Bill

 

[powelllake]

This works in extreme cold weather. Get yourself a six foot piece of stove pipe with an elbow at one end. Stick your tiger torch into the other end and set on low flame and heat up your oil pan if you can get at it. Dont leave unattended.
Mark

 

[STIHL-KID]

A student's point of view...............

I recently read through this thread and realized how much of it applies to what I have recently learned. I am in school right now learning diesel technology. We have already covered batteries. I have some current charts that shows temperature and how is affects batteries. A fully charged battery at 0 degrees will show an open terminal voltage of 12.5 volts. A battery's electrolite will not fully freeze until it reaches around -85 to -95 F. A battery's charge is 50% at a specific gravity of 1.19. For example, at 0 degrees the specific gravity of a fully charged battery will be 1.297. I have several charts that help me understand temperature and how they affect the battery's ability to perform. Commonly, the old urban legend has been "don't store a battery on a hard concrete floor". That is half true. The floor itself does not discharge the battery, it's the fact that the cold floor is absorbing any heat the battery may have. This leads to premature discharge. My instructor has always recommended that any batteries left outside in freezing temperatures should be taken out and stored indoors if possible. The higher the battery temp, the better chance is will have at cranking. As for a skidder sitting out in the woods overnight during freezing temps, unhook the battery and take it back to the warm shop. The next day the battery will be warm and ready to fully crank. Diesels are extremely cold-blooded in the dead of winter and the best thing is to give it the best possible chance of starting. As already stated a million times on this thread, either is a last ditch effort. Often I hear stories in school about people breaking piston rings, blowing up glow plugs, and causing other expensive problems because of either misuse. Be Carefull!!!

 

[habanero]

I didn't read the entire thread carefully, so if this is a repeat, I apologize in advance. But one trick I used on my old Mercedes diesel from time to time was WD-40 in the intake, rather than ether. As mentioned several times previously, the ether has explosive potential in the combustion chamber. But WD-40 won't explode in the chamber, and the propane propellant works well to get it to light off easily.

Most important things, though, are a well-maintained electrical system and engine warmth via block heat, oil-pan heat, etc.